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Crime Against Humanity
21-12-2004, 11:30 AM
Post: #1
Crime Against Humanity

Established 1981
London School of Islamics
An Educational Trust
63 Margery Park Road London E7 9LD
Email: info@londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
Tel/Fax: 0208 555 2733 / 07817 112 667

Crime against Humanity

To deprive a Muslim child from his/her culture and language is a crime against Humanity. Children of minority communities have the right to enjoy their own culture and to practice their own religion and language. British Muslims have been denying such rights in the field of education. Education shall aim at developing the child’s personality, the talents, mental and physical abilities to the fullest extent. Education shall prepare the child for an active adult life in a free society and foster respect for the child’s parents, his or her cultural identity, language and values. UK Government is a signatury of this convention and has an obligation to comply with this convention under UK Law.

It is absurd to say that Muslim community should demonstrate “Englishness”. They can’t. But they can be and are British. Curriculum does not reflect their needs and demands. The relationship between native teachers and Muslim children generally characterized by “conflict and fear”. We have lost three generations and fourth one is in the process of loosing its linguistic, Religious and cultural Identity. Respect and tolerance of different religions, cultures and languages are essential for positive community cohesion. Community cohesion is not just about attitudes and values. It means tackling basic inequalities at the same time. We cannot hope to have a cohesive community if some sections are so disadvantaged that they have no hope of securing a real stake in society.

The solution of all those problems is state-funded Muslim schools. More and more people are coming round to the view that an Islamic school is the best choice for their children because it strengthens and maintains their children’s faith and practice of Islam, but also offers the best chance of academic success, as GCSE results continue to confirm. Today the Muslim community is faced with situations where the morality and education is declining in schools and their children are being exposed and being entrapped into a way of life which is un-Islamic. According to a recent survey, nine out of ten Muslim parents would like to send their children to state funded Muslim schools.

The first wave of Muslims used English as an economic language and still it is not used as a social and emotional language. English could become social and emotional language if Muslims start moving in and around pubs, indulge in binge drinking, visiting night clubs and frequently changing partners. This is what the British establishment want them to be an integral part of the British society. Islam is a maker of Identity and belonging rather than a system of belief. The Imams from the sub-continent are well versed in Urdu, Arabic, and Persian on top of their mother tongue: Punjabi, Bengali or Gujrati and other regional languages. They come here to serve the spiritual, social and emotional needs of the Muslim community in their own languages. Urdu is a literary, social and emotional language of the Muslims from the sub-continent, Arabic is their religious language and English is for economic activity and prosperity.
Iftikhar Ahmad



The above letter was posted on a news forum I belong to - its has provoked various reactions and as SO has such a mixture of different kinds of people, I would be very interested in hearing your views........

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21-12-2004, 07:16 PM
Post: #2
Crime Against Humanity
It seems strange to me that we have state C of E schools but we don't have state muslim schools. I'd have thought that if there was demand for it then the one would be equally as justified as the other. I think that provided the teaching was in English, and the curriculum was the standard National Curriculum, and the religious content was no greater than you'd see in a normal state school then I wouldn't have a problem with the idea of a muslim school.

Mick Smile
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21-12-2004, 09:49 PM
Post: #3
Crime Against Humanity
I am not surprised that the letter caused some debate!
The words 'want' and 'use' seem to sum it up.

These muslims can be British...but not embrace Englishness??? (yeah go on, trot out some of our and other cultures' bad traits)

Language...? Speak culturally and socially in your own tongue, and English for commercial gain? .... Smart move.

I never thought I would say this but the double standards are so obvious, try opening a Roman Catholic or Mormon church in a staunchly Muslim country... try to excercise your right to retain and live out all the social and cultural aspects of your British culture in Saudi...mmm different picture is emerging now isn't it?

Strikes me that these people cannot choose between 'commerce' (interpret that word as you will) and religion. And I for one am getting pretty sick of it.

There should be give and take on all sides, but we should not be backed into a corner as we are now becuase of a minority of ridgid and outspoken people who are willing to expolit the benefits of living here but refuse to adapt to the British way of life.
Rant over
M

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21-12-2004, 10:10 PM
Post: #4
Crime Against Humanity
Well said Marmy.

"You cannot teach people anything. You can only help them discover it within themselves."
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22-12-2004, 10:01 AM
Post: #5
Crime Against Humanity
So eloquently put Marms - thats how I feel!!!

I know darn well if I was to move to Saudi, that its a strict Muslim Country and therefore I would have to take on board that there wouldnt be bars and clubs on every corner, that my dress would have to be considered whether it would be insulting to my fellow "countrymen", and many more things, and if I wasnt prepared to change my lifestyle to suit the Country where I was planning on living then the answer is................dont move there!

I also know if I went to my LEA and asked them for funding for a Pagan school they would tell me to sling me hook........

As most of you know, Im an old hippie - I love everyone (until they actually do something to me to make me change my mind!) and I understand that none of us are flawless, but I DO feel very strongly about "foreign nationals" coming to live in the UK then slate everything about the UK and try to change it - I have Irish family and friends who are always "sl@gging" the UK off and my answer everytime is clear off back to Derry/Dublin if its that bad - my old flat mate was a devil for it - she even supported Germany against England in Euro 96 the Witch!!!!!

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22-12-2004, 10:26 AM
Post: #6
Crime Against Humanity
Marmoset Wrote:I never thought I would say this but the double standards are so obvious, try opening a Roman Catholic or Mormon church in a staunchly Muslim country... try to excercise your right to retain and live out all the social and cultural aspects of your British culture in Saudi...mmm different picture is emerging now isn't it?
To be fair you're not comparing like with like. Britain isn't a "staunchly Christian" country. We're rather better than Saudi IMO (or would you have us reduce ourselves to their level of intolerance???) If you must compare with a muslim country use a secular muslim country like Turkey or Malaysia. I'll bet you those two countries have "western" schools for the benefit of all those expats who don't fancy integrating too closely into the local culture.

I agree the wording of the letter isn't great - it's far too agressive in its demands. It looks like the writer isn't a native English speaker - maybe that's part of the problem. Certainly I don't see any merit in having a muslim school (or a pagan school or whatever) if there's only a few people that want it - that'd be daft. But if there's sufficient demand then why should a muslim school be any worse a thing than a C of E school?

Mick Smile
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For topical debate and vitriolic mudslinging DON'T visit: http://www.greatworlddebate.com cos it's a dead link.

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22-12-2004, 11:42 AM
Post: #7
Crime Against Humanity
mikado Wrote:To be fair you're not comparing like with like. Britain isn't a "staunchly Christian" country. We're rather better than Saudi IMO (or would you have us reduce ourselves to their level of intolerance???) If you must compare with a muslim country use a secular muslim country like Turkey or Malaysia. I'll bet you those two countries have "western" schools for the benefit of all those expats who don't fancy integrating too closely into the local culture.

I agree the wording of the letter isn't great - it's far too agressive in its demands. It looks like the writer isn't a native English speaker - maybe that's part of the problem. Certainly I don't see any merit in having a muslim school (or a pagan school or whatever) if there's only a few people that want it - that'd be daft. But if there's sufficient demand then why should a muslim school be any worse a thing than a C of E school?

I have several friends who live in Spain, and their children attend "Brit" schools - and it is funded by the ex pats, as it was their CHOICE not to send their kids to a Spanish school which is available to them and funded by the Spanish authorities..........THIS is my point!!!!

I dont have objections to a Muslim school - its their choice, but I do find the the expectations for it to be funded from public money a little too much to swallow - we have far greater issues and needs that should be addressed 1st - after all, its not as if Muslim kids are being denied an education is it?

I also find it very difficult to comprehend how a "group" who dont want to be treated differently to the rest of the Country, actually segregate themselves in this way - highlighting the differences between us and being very critical of the Nation they live in........I dont understand why they chose to live in the "West" when the whole world knows that we are not as conservative as many other countries...............I am just confused by it all!

We should all be more open minded and tollerant of each other - regardless of what or where we are from!

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22-12-2004, 02:21 PM
Post: #8
Crime Against Humanity
Having lived in Northern Ireland, I have seen the difficulties that can arise where children are sent to faith schools. When groups of children are educated separately from each other, a community can become permanently segregated.
Which unfortunately seems to be what these Imams want. Perhaps they are terrified of muslim children mixing with non-muslims, in case they begin to question their authority.

At my children's primary school there are many muslim children, and they are given their own assembly, and festivals such as Eid are discussed and celebrated, as well as Christmas etc. It seems to me that this is the best way of managing a multi-cultural community - allowing people to practise their own religion within the community rather than separating off into closed groups.
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22-12-2004, 02:41 PM
Post: #9
Crime Against Humanity
I know what you are saying cayman......I was bought up RC in the Midlands in the 70's (all of my fathers family are Derry born and bred) and it wasnt unusal for us to be spat upon and in some cases my parents friends were physically attacked for being Irish - all because of the "troubles" back then.......

There used to be gang fights between the Catholic and Protestant schools on a regular basis - and this was JUNIOR and PRIMARY schools!!!!!

It just baffles me as to why any religion thinks that their way is the only way and the outcome for those that dont comply is anger and aggression - surely ALL Faiths preach to "love thy neighbour" - its a blummin shame that those that practice the various religions dont take a bit more on board at what their particular religion stands for!!!!

If I can see it as a non Christian/nonbeliever, why cant the devout followers of Islam, RC, or whoever see it?!?!?!?

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23-12-2004, 12:30 AM
Post: #10
Crime Against Humanity
this has angered me!! i cant help but think that they can like it or lump it!! my family hail from china and i was born here in scotland, i would class myself as british first and foremost. NEVER in my entire life has my parents had an issue with schooling here. we as a family still recognized things like chinese new year and august moon festival but we also celebrate things like christmas. these muslims (not all, but those that are kicking up the fuss) come here to take advantage of our way of life but dont want to live our way of life. how does that work? my family too came here to take advantage of britains way of life and it has been good for us in that we live comfortably and we embrace the british way of life coz thats where we are now. obviously we dont have things like roast dinners on a sunday and all that jazz coz my parents didnt grow up that way so therefore we didnt grow up with that. but never have we felt that the british were being unfair to us and how the muslims can keep harping on about stuff like that is beyond me and gets me so angry!! just be bluddy grateful their children are getting a free education in the first place!! millions of other children dont have the priviledge so they should embrace it and all the trimmings too. and if they are worried about their children jumping ship and having one night stands and binge drinking then perhaps they should bugger off!! sorry that might sound racist and maybe it even is a little, please delete it ive went too far there. but even if they acheive thier wish of a muslim school, then theres still going to be tv, cinema, magazines and other people they encounter that may influence them. so unless they have them cottoned in a muslim bubble then they are bound to come across western ideals and perhaps even wish to try it. and if they wish to segregrate themselves like that then others are not going to learn about their way of life and have the opportunity to interact with them and that will create conflict and more racism.

kookycat? she makes exceedingly good posts

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