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Last Hoorah? (been here before)
24-11-2004, 09:29 AM
Post: #21
Last Hoorah? (been here before)

karenh Wrote:It doesn't really matter what their reasons are for declining it, for the Labour Party to pass the law in spite of the House of Lords is a gross undermining of our democracy
On the contrary it's the Lords who undermine our democracy. The Labour Party, like them or not, were elected by the voters. The Lords were elected by nobody, and to be honest it'd be hard to imagine a group of people less representative of the general population. The sooner they vanish the better IMO.

I mean, the Government introduces a terrorism act which allows the police to bang people up in Belmarsh without trial on suspicion of being muslim, and the Lords waves it through. But when it comes to people's ancient rights to be cruel to animals suddenly the Lords is the defender of our freedom??? WTF is up with that???

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24-11-2004, 09:37 AM
Post: #22
Last Hoorah? (been here before)
I also have to agree with Mick here. The sooner the Lords are abolished the better off we will all be. Of course the Lords are going to agree with the 'tally ho' of this issue and to say otherwise is truly denying a fact.

What DOES protect our democracy are the fact that the Labour Party alone does not rule the commons. That is why we have opposition parties.

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24-11-2004, 11:33 AM
Post: #23
Last Hoorah? (been here before)
I agree with Tigger & Mikado here, why on earth do we need a roomful of pompous old gits who really have not got a clue about the real world?

It was maybe ok back in historical times but they do not have a place in today's society! There should be a public vote on this measure methinks!

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24-11-2004, 12:24 PM
Post: #24
Last Hoorah? (been here before)
Gosh someone please edit my bad grammar in that last post. Having read it again I am so embarrassed. Blush It will teach me to read through my posts before actually posting them. :laugh:

Wasn't the Government going to do something about the Lords? I remember hearing something about it a year or so back.

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24-11-2004, 05:17 PM
Post: #25
Last Hoorah? (been here before)
Well, whether or not you agree with the House of Lords is irelevant to the point I was making really. I don't agree with them either, and would much prefer that the members of the House were a fully elected body. And of course, the reason why they are unable to pass through a bill which bans foxhunting is because most of them probably partake of the sport.

I do not disagree with that, but again, it is not the point I was making.

My point was that - like them or not - the House of Lords are there to ensure some level of "checking" for the Government at they are all we have! No bill can be passed as law without their approval, except in exceptional circumstances, when the Parliament Act can be invoked to overrule.

Fair enough! But the Parliament Act should not have been used in this issue. I'm sorry, but no matter how passionate you feel about the subject, foxhunting is not a matter of National Security, it does not affect State Welfare and does not affect the Human Rights of the people of this land.

Whether you agree with foxhunting or not (and I'm not certain where I stand) I deplore the motives for this law (vote winner, rather than genuine concern for fluffy foxes) and the way it has been passed. I am not speaking in favour of the House of Lords, but I am saying that while they are there, the role the play should not be undermined in this way and for these reasons.

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24-11-2004, 05:41 PM
Post: #26
Last Hoorah? (been here before)
karenh Wrote:But the Parliament Act should not have been used in this issue. I'm sorry, but no matter how passionate you feel about the subject, foxhunting is not a matter of National Security, it does not affect State Welfare and does not affect the Human Rights of the people of this land.


Does a matter have to fit into one of those three categories for the act to be invoked - or can it be anything rejected by the Lords that reflects the concensus view of the people?

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24-11-2004, 07:45 PM
Post: #27
Last Hoorah? (been here before)
survivorfan Wrote:Does a matter have to fit into one of those three categories for the act to be invoked - or can it be anything rejected by the Lords that reflects the concensus view of the people?

I'm not an expert on this SF, but I don't think a matter actually has to fit into any specific category at all for the Parliament Act to be invoked. But I do know that it very rarely gets invoked, and the few times that this has happend it has tended to be used for matters of greater national significance than foxhunting. E.g. the Parliament Act was invoked to pass the War Crimes Act and to pass the Bill which lowered the age of consent for gay men.

I'm not suggesting here that the Government have done anything illegal - they haven't. But what I am saying is that have done something quite unethical - they have invoked a rarely used Parliament Act on an issue of negligent national importance purely to pass a law that they see as being a vote winner.

Personally, I think that is a bit scarey. When will they use it to their advantage next?

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27-11-2004, 06:49 PM
Post: #28
Last Hoorah? (been here before)
I'm debating (with myself) wether to bid for a rather attractive oil painting of a hunt scene on ebay. The seller seems to think that seeing the ban has come in there won't be much more of these done....

It's a lovely picture and I know just the spot it would go.....
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28-11-2004, 09:47 AM
Post: #29
Last Hoorah? (been here before)
Cat Wrote:I'm debating (with myself) wether to bid for a rather attractive oil painting of a hunt scene on ebay. The seller seems to think that seeing the ban has come in there won't be much more of these done....

It's a lovely picture and I know just the spot it would go.....

Go Cat Co!!Smile

But if this morning's poll on the BBC is anything to go by - we will continue to see hunts for a long time to come.

The BBC reported on the news this morning that in a recent survey 70% of the GBP do not wish the police to 'police' the hunt ban!! NOw I wonder why that is?? Considering our 'elected' voices of the people [aka MP's] have taken the vote for us and banned hunting!!??

I just don't understand - this makes me think as a few people have mentioned above that this ban was supposed to be an election winner. If this survey is to be beleived then I wonder if the Labour party have got it all wrong - once again??:glare:
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28-11-2004, 09:56 AM
Post: #30
Last Hoorah? (been here before)
Flip Wrote:The BBC reported on the news this morning that in a recent survey 70% of the GBP do not wish the police to 'police' the hunt ban!! NOw I wonder why that is??

Maybe they don't want their council tax money to be spent this way.

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