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The Restaurant
15-09-2008, 08:42 AM
Post: #11
The Restaurant

Because its everything that's wrong with the entertainment business today. That a creature as low, common and vulgar as Jade Goody can not only be handsomely paid, but CELEBRATED, for being as crass and ignorant as she is shows how far we have fallen as a society in general.

Kids today are growing up seeing this sort of thing as "being famous." Like, you don't have to have a talent, (and I am NOT talking about "I can sing nicely. That makes me a POP STAR" kind of talent either), you don't have to be good at anything. Look at Jade Goody. Look at those twins from Big Brother. Look at Channelle. Look at Danielle Lloyd. The most talentless, loathsome people on the planet are now HOUSEHOLD NAMES thanks to reality television. A generation of kids are growing up knowing more about coke snorting, zero talent morons like Kerry Katona than people with genuine talent. And that is WRONG.

Yes, these shows are popular, but only because they appeal to the lowest common denominator. For people who don't actually want to THINK about anything. The Heat magazine reading, "sleb" addicted cretins who think front page news begins and ends with Posh Spice. Basically, people who don't deserve the gift of sight. These people don't have any real interest in anything - they just accept what is put in front of them. Case in point - that singing in the rain dance mix by Mint Royale came out about three years ago and it did nothing in the charts. Fair enough - it sucked. But the simple fact it was on Britains Got Talent meant it just HAD to be a massive hit, because the easily lead, brain-dead mass public idiots HAVE to buy it. And then the X-Factor, where a bunch of eager to please pub singing chancers like Leon Jackson and Ray Quinn are given million pound record deals, where time and time again the sheep will flock together and buy anything, ANYTHING, because Simon Cowell says so.

Morrissey said recently that the word "Celebrity" was now an evil word, and how right he is. Zach Braff commented on how bad this reality television thing has gotten. He said that actors can't get work because people would rather watch other people sitting around a house. Arrested Development, one of THE greatest sitcoms of ALL TIME, was cancelled half way through its third season and replaced with "Skating With Celebrities." Now, Mars - you tell me there's nothing wrong with THAT?

These shows are a CANCER on television and everything it could and should be. And the more people continue to watch them "for light entertainment" the worse its going to get.

Don't abuse children, or else they'll turn out like me.
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15-09-2008, 11:48 AM
Post: #12
The Restaurant
You do make some very good points, and I can't argue that Jade, Chantelle and *shudder* Jodie Marsh should be celebrated for being famous because, well, they do sod all and don't deserve to be to be honest.

I also agree with the wrongness that a lot of young kids are growing up intending to be famous for drinking copious amounts, shagging a footballer and living off the story for years to come. If people want to become famous, they should have a talent. (I don't count Victoria Beckham in the 'famous for nothing' category, at least she came to fame as a part of something, whether she could really sing or not, and worked at achieving something first.)

However, this I can't agree with:

The Curmudgeon Wrote:These shows are a CANCER on television and everything it could and should be.

I appreciate actors can't get work (and decent ones at that), and I agree that there is an overdose of reality TV these days, but I don't think their mere presence is THAT bad. Maybe there are too many, but who says this isn't what TV is for? Who dictates the rules that it should be informative and original, at the expense of pure entertainment?

When the BBC was set up, its remit was to inform, educate and entertain. Of course, this was the first television channel in Britain, so entertainment has always had a place on British TV. Whilst there possibly may be too many reality shows, I disagree they should be wiped altogether.

Whilst I want to watch creative television, and I do really enjoy it. I also WANT to watch 'mindless' television. Why? Because sometimes, I just don't want to think. Sometimes I can't be bothered to think, especially after a hard day. Why is this such a crime?

Television has to cater for everybody. If you truly search hard, and from what you have said you watch, I believe you do, there is enough original, thought-provoking and creative programming out there to serve you. There does need to be a balance, and perhaps the balance has gone a little too far, but give it a couple of years, and everything will shift again.

Oh and I don't believe the music industry is in a state. Maybe the mainstream is a little 'pre-packaged', but artists like Will Young, Girls Aloud and Leona Lewis have added something to charts, whether you like them or not (personally, I'm not the biggest fan), and the others you mentioned (Ray Quinn etc) only ever really get a one album deal, and we never see them again so do they really matter?

Downloads and MySpace enable bands to get their music out to a much wider audience than ever before, look at the Arctic Monkeys. I think the British Music Industry is the healthiest it has been for a while, because creativity is being encouraged, as artists can release albums themselves, without fear of record label issues.

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15-09-2008, 02:15 PM
Post: #13
The Restaurant
OK, the X Factor "music" thing could be given its own thread, so I'll give my two cents on that one right now.

I had a discussion with an X Factor fan the other day. I called The X Factor "The Worst Show In The World." Yes, it is OK to watch, I won't deny that (people sing, people get judged on singing - what's not to like? Plus, Simon Cowell is funny and likeable and Cheryl Cole is smoking hot. Saying that, Louis Walsh is hateful and Danni Minogue almost blends into the wallpaper). Is it a boring program? No. Is it an entertaining program? In some ways - yes.

BUT.

Here's one of my major problems with this show, and one of the reasons it IS the Worst Show In The World. When I see one of these idiot contestents who. "boo hoo, I want this more than anything else in the world, boo hoo, my mum died, wah wah" I want to throw them in front of a car. So, these idiots want it SO badly, more than anything, but they only ever try in front of the biggest show in the world? If you take one look at the back pages of NME, there are HUNDREDS of unsigned bands looking for lead singers, yet that would never appeal to these people. Hell, 3/4s of them probably don't even know what NME even IS. Most of the people who go on these shows, and indeed, most of the people who WATCH this show, don't even really LIKE music. Yeah, they'll have a CD player in the car full of M People, Celine Dion, Ronan Keating and, to show they have "depth", a Michael Buble album, and the contestants are just as bad, in that they've probably bought about 20 CDS in their life, 15 of them being Greatest Hits. They don't know, appreciate or even CARE about what music is. And so the only way for them to make it in the music business is to go on a reality show to do it. That to do something as crazy and out there as join, like, a REAL band and help create REAL music doesn't even enter their thick heads.

I pointed this out to the guy I was talking to, and he said, "yeah, well, that's because these bands don't go anywhere."

Well, damn. R.I.P, music.

X Factor is one of the worst things that could ever happen to British music. It's breeding a generation of people like my uneducated friend who think that if you don't go on X Factor, if you don't get through to the finals of X Factor, then there is no earthly reason you will ever make it in the music business. It's breeding a generation of kids that think to be a POP STAR all you need is a nice voice and for some "mogul" to write your songs and direct your videos. It's killing pop music. Not rock music or "indie" music (whatever that is) - but POP music.

Will there ever be another pop star like Madonna? Or Prince? Or MJ? Unlikely - and that's because of programs like this.

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15-09-2008, 04:51 PM
Post: #14
The Restaurant
The Curmudgeon Wrote:Will there ever be another pop star like Madonna? Or Prince? Or MJ? Unlikely - and that's because of programs like this.

I think that's a tad too far.

Concerning people looking in the NME rather than going on The X Factor, 'pop' music (as in mainstream stuff) wouldn't look in there surely? I would imagine (and it was the last time I looked) that they adverts wouldn't apply to the people usually found on the X Factor. People who audition for the X Factor usually cite their influences as people like Mariah Carey, Celine Dion, Whitney etc, whereas (again, I would imagine) NME adverts would cite Joy Division, The Cure and the like.

You can't really argue with this I don't think, one attracts the people who listen to pop music, and one attracts people who listen to more alternative music. They cater for different markets. Why shouldn't they? If the people who audition for The X Factor are as bad as you say they are, I personally wouldn't want them to join bands advertised in NME, they would ruin them.

Another thing, whilst I enjoy The X Factor, it is ridiculously over produced, and I know for a fact that contestants are told to argue back, plead for their lives and say it is their only chance. I would highly doubt that these people actually mean what they say. Some may, I admit, but definitely not all by any means.

And, whilst you may think 'Pop' music is dead (if we discount rock and indie for the time being) I would have to agree slightly, it's not as strong as it used to be, but there are signs it is coming back. Indie music has taken over, and become 'pop' music, maybe this has killed 'pop' music, and not a programme that the majority of the music buying public don't treat seriously (how many winners have disappeared?).

But Mika, The Saturdays, Alphabeat, all recently successful pop artists have done well. Whether they will stand the test of time will be seen.

But there must be some hope, Cliff Richard is at number 3 this week!

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16-09-2008, 04:57 PM
Post: #15
The Restaurant
Yeah, but - just because they're into Mariah Carey and Celine Dion doesn't mean they can't provide vocals for a band. The fact is these people aren't even remotely interested in MUSIC. They think having a nice voice = superstar, and the only way to go about becoming a star is to sing on the X-Factor. When, if they simply tried making it on their own, starting a band as a lead singer and having someone else write the vocals for them (like, say, the Manic Street Preachers), they might have a shot.

Case in point - The Tings Tings. Now, Katie White started off in an everyday crappy girl band. That band folded but she hooked up with Jules and formed their own band and became critical darlings and a number one pop act. Now, if Katie (or Jules, for that matter) had auditioned for X Factor they wouldn't have made it to "Boot Camp" (ugh) because they don't have amazing singing voices.

You mentioned Mika, and I always find it funny the fact that Mika's songs get played DURING the X-Factor, but Cowell himself turned down Mika for a record deal because he liked his voice, but not his songs. Go figure.

In short - the X Factor may be a decent TV show to watch, but it floods the chart with pop poison, and has killed a generation of kids enjoyment in real pop music, and brainwashed people into accepting mundane singing ability as musical ability.

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16-09-2008, 06:18 PM
Post: #16
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Here's a better speech than I could ever do, from the end of the Extras Christmas special, aimed primarily at Big Brother but at reality TV and Heat magazine reading scum in general..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQAr_AjZt-E

"****** you for filming this, and ****** you for watching it."

HELL YES.

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16-09-2008, 06:26 PM
Post: #17
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The Curmudgeon Wrote:Yeah, but - just because they're into Mariah Carey and Celine Dion doesn't mean they can't provide vocals for a band.

But why should they? Do they have to justify their 'interest' in music by scavenging around in the doldrums providing vocals for (probably on the whole) a pretty crappy band when they probably aren't interested in the music? Why can't people identify exactly what they want to do and head straight for it, if that's what they want to do?

Case in point, I've worked voluntarily on many different radio stations in the last few years and am now trying to get into the industry. If I was offered a route straight to Radio 1 would I take it? Undoubtedly. Why? Because, despite it being the easy option, it is my dream and I would be a fool to turn it down.

Also, just because someone has appeared on a reality talent show, if they then go on to produce a stonking pop album, does this mean it isn't worthy of its place? According to many, Lemar and Leona have both produced good work, so is this music not to be taken seriously?

Put simply, just because someone goes through a show, does this mean they aren't relevant? Does music HAVE to be that serious all the time? Can it not be taken a little more light-heartedly? Why is everything 'easy' scorned?

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16-09-2008, 06:41 PM
Post: #18
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You mis-understand me, Mars.

You're wanting to be a DJ, right? So you're starting out on local radio etc. Good for you. Because you're obviously interested in being a DJ.

These creatures that appear on X Factor cry and whinge and say its all they've ever wanted, yet the only way they think they can make it is by turning up for the X Factor, because other than it won't happen.

They don't have an interest or an appreciation for music. They can sing nice and they think that's enough. And the only way they think to make it in the music business is through reality television. THAT is the problem.

And it's gutting to read someone else (especially someone wanting to be a DJ) describing up and coming bands as "probably" crap.

As I said before - R.I.P, music.

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16-09-2008, 06:49 PM
Post: #19
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The Curmudgeon Wrote:And it's gutting to read someone else (especially someone wanting to be a DJ) describing up and coming bands as "probably" crap.

I'll respond to the rest in a bit, but just wanted to clear this up first.

I don't assume up and coming bands are 'probably' going to be crap. I love new music, can't get enough of it, and want to be pleasantly surprised when I listen to a new song.

However, from working in radio, I do know a hell of a lot of demo tapes received ARE crap. A lot of them are really really good, and this is brilliant. But some are terrible. Now I would imagine a lot of the bands advertising in NME and elsewhere will be just a little whim or a phase and not actually get anywhere, and, therefore considering some of the demo tapes that do get sent off are of poor quality, the number of bands who never bother doing anything, but still advertise, would also be quite high.

So it's not that I think new music is crap, I don't at all, it's just I know how a lot of bands and people work, and many just cannot be arsed.

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16-09-2008, 07:01 PM
Post: #20
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Right, agreed, but then those people probably aren't blubbing in front of 10 million people saying "this is my dreeeeeam."

If it's your DREAM go do something about it. Don't just imagine it'll never happen because Cowell said no. Gaaaah, the whole thing annoys me.

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