Reports today are that Child porn was found by police at Micheal Jacksons home ...

Other thread deleted, Claire:)

ooooooo I couldn't answer, as I just don't know, but I don't know either argement. I do know if they have found child porn - he is guilty of something and should be suitably punished.

I just think when celebs as big as Jackson are involved we never ever see a fair and unbiased trial. Is the trial imminent?

If you are interested, tomorrow night Channel 4, 9:00pm is showing a documentary with the boys from the past all giving interviews. La Toya Jackson also gives her take on it all.

This is a very difficult one, and there is a lot to be taken into consideration here. I have met and talked to MJ - about 8 years ago now, and he is a very child like person - it's like he's trying to get back the childhood he never really had. When I met him he had a little boy with him, about 8 years old, and this child obviously adored him - no sign of any abuse there at all, and I am clued up on all that.

I don't know if this is the fact that he acts childish (even that isn't the right term, more never grown up may be nearer), and that he loves being with kids that some do-gooders have picked him up. He is also loaded with assets, I would guess billions, though in cash terms I don't think he has a lot now, he spends like a kid too, on anything that takes his fancy.

Yes, he is weird, that is obvious, but I wonder about the so called parents that still allow their kids to stay at his Neverland Ranch - after allegations were made several years back they still flock there. I would no way let any kids of mine stay there - mud sticks, and I wonder if parents have been letting their kids go there so they can sue the ass off him.

I don't know if he's guilty or not, but I do think we will never know the full truth, so therefore I am sitting on the fence.

One thing I am sure of, is that MJ desperately needs some decent advisors and friends in this world, the ones he has right now are crap and just hanging onto his money-tails!

I think MJ has some severe mental health issues, I dont know about the allegations of paedophilia, to me, he is a kid that has never grown up, he was a child star that was in the media circus from a very young age, he was denied a "normal" childhood, and now he has riches beyond his dreams, he can afford to have everything he didnt have as a child.......which includes young children as his friends.....its not "right" but is it as sinister as child abuse??

I dont think we will ever know!

I can't condemn a man for any crime without seeing all the evidence. As none of us will ever be party to that I think it's hugely unfair to reach any sort of judgement about him based on hearsay and tabloid speculation.

Some people seem to be certain that he is innocent.

In which case it is equally unfair on his alleged victims to assume his innocence based on personal belief.

Fox News 29/01/05

SANTA MARIA, Calif. — Dozens of sexually explicit books, magazines and DVDs seized at Michael Jackson's (search) Neverland ranch will be admitted into evidence at the pop star's molestation trial, the judge ruled Friday in California Superior Court in Santa Maria.

Superior Court Judge Rodney Melville (search) permitted most of the proposed evidence to be used at trial, but said the prosecution could not refer to the material as pornography, obscenity or erotic. Instead, the words "adult" or "sexually explicit" can be used.

One of the seized magazines has the fingerprints of both Jackson and his accuser, Senior Deputy District Attorney Ron Zonen said.

Zonen also said the 50 print and video items that were seized in 2003 included graphic sexual material that was both heterosexual and homosexual in nature. The material also included nude photos of models who may have been 18 but looked much younger, he said.

Defense attorney Thomas Mesereau Jr. (search) countered that all the materials seized were legally available. In the case of the magazine with the prints, he said, evidence will show Jackson took it away from his accuser and locked it up.

Melville also ruled that several items could not be used as evidence, including three books seized in 1993 that allegedly show pictures of nude adolescents.

He also ruled that Jackson's accuser should testify in open court instead of in a closed courtroom with an audio hookup for the media.

Prosecutors had wanted to close the courtroom to the media and public when the boy, now 15, and his 14-year-old brother testify, proposing that reporters be allowed to hear their voices through an audio feed. But the judge ruled Friday that the courtroom should be open, adding that he would consider closing it if there were any disruptions.

A coalition of media covering the high-profile case, including The Associated Press, had argued that the boys' testimony should not be closed.

Melville also ruled that the Martin Bashir (search) documentary "Living With Michael Jackson" — as seen in Europe, not the one Bashir did for ABC — is also admissible and may be shown at trial.

The Bashir documentary aired on the ABC television network in 2003. In it, Jackson defends his practice of sleeping in the same bed with children.

Defense lawyers have objected to the screening, denouncing the documentary as "heavily edited in the most sensational fashion possible."

In addition, Melville refused to keep Martin Bashir from being called as a prosecution witness.

Bashir's lawyer, Theodore Boutrous Jr., argued Bashir was protected by the First Amendment and California's strict shield law from having to testify about the documentary. Boutrous also represents AP and other media in efforts to broaden media access.

Bashir, now a correspondent for ABC News, could still test the law and refuse to answer questions after he takes the witness stand. In a prepared statement, ABC News said it will "continue to assert vigorously Mr. Bashir's rights under the California shield law and the First Amendment."

Prosecutors have subpoenaed Bashir to testify about the making of the documentary. Bashir is fighting the subpoena, arguing that under both California law and the U.S. Constitution, he cannot be forced to testify.

A Jackson family attorney, Debra Opri, told "FOX and Friends" Friday morning that she did not think jurors should see Bashir's movie.

"[Santa Barbara County District Attorney] Tom Sneddon (search) is known as 'Mad Dog' Sneddon, and he got his sights on Michael, and this documentary just gave him the fodder," Opri said.

"This documentary was so inflammatory to Michael, and while I don't think Martin Bashir should be taking the stand, he will be used by the prosecution to attempt to lay a foundation to get that documentary in," she continued. "And that documentary is sensationalist — it was edited with an angle of showing Michael as different, a freak."

Jackson, 46, has pleaded not guilty to the charges of molesting a 13-year-old boy and plying him with alcohol.

Jury selection in the case begins Monday, and could last six to eight weeks. The judge and attorneys for both sides are expected to screen as many as 750 prospective jurors.

The judge indicated Friday once a jury is seated, he will release the indictment, grand jury transcripts and possibly some police reports submitted as grand jury exhibits in the case.

Opri told FOX News that Jackson's parents were eager to get the trial started.

"Right now, it's like 'Let's get this under way,'" she said. "They believe their son is innocent, and they think the evidence will come out to show that. Everybody is nervous. When you start a criminal trial, everybody is nervous."

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

What a mess.

I do not know whether Jackson is guilty anymore than the next person. From what I've seen of him, my instinct tells me he has a genuine love for children and very poor advisers or advisers he will not listen to. After the last boy and his parents made a fortune from Jackson, he should have been told to try and keep a lid on his emotions and definitely not have children to stay overnight as it was asking for trouble.

In a way it is very sad that he cannot hold a boys hand or speak of being genuinely fond of a boy who is not his son without the accusations flying. But then, we know this is the way the world is going. The library thread is a good example.

Whenever you get someone as high profile and as loaded as Jackson, there'll always be someone else who is out to make their fortune from him. Whether this is what has happened in this case, well that's the conundrum.

Jackson can afford and will have the best defence team available. But he's going to need it as he has the whole of the world's media licking their lips in anticipation of his downfall.

The whole circus is very distasteful. No one is going to come out of this smelling of roses. Even if Jackson is proven guilty, I'm sure the boys who he allegedly molested will not be able to ever have a normal life again. There will always be people who believe their accusations were purely for financial gain and not founded on truth. The family might be rich, but there will always be a fear of retribution.

The only people who win in this sordid little affair are the lawyers.

Brought back to top for topicallity................haven't voted................Got forced into a moral quandry this xmas as duaghter wanted MJ's cd. Had to explain to 10yr old why I had issues. She looked up info on accusations on the net. I bought cd but would prefer that all royalties were suspended until case over. Then if found guilty royalties could go to suitable organisations for rehabilitation and education.

I caught a few interesting snippets on the BBC news today:

The judge [forgotten his name already] is already a bit miffed at MJ as he was the same judge as his last appearance and MJ was 20 mins late.

It could take up to a month to select a jury!!!:shock: :shock:

And you know what would annoy me?? The amount of fans hanging around outside! Did anyone else see the British woman, a nursery or kindergarten teacher, who hass given her 13 year career up to travel to the states to support MJ!?? Crazy!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/Clairewebb/jacko.jpg

For the last time YES

You don't give someone 12 million to keep quite if you are innocent

The question is will they be able to prove it

My take on this is this:

I think MJ is guilty of doing something most other people would find wrong.

I do believe however that he doesn't consider he has done anything wrong.

The chap is so messed up, he has no idea of the real world just MJ world - I think it is very sad both for Michael Jackson & the children concerned.

............& no, I'm not a fan.

When I watch him speak, he kind of convinces me that he is innocent. Then you hear others speak and they convince me otherwise. Plus theres the fact that he's gagged practically everybody with huge sums of money including his ex - wife who is now seeking custody of the kids as she is worried about them living with him.

My take on this is this:

I think MJ is guilty of doing something most other people would find wrong.

I do believe however that he doesn't consider he has done anything wrong.

The chap is so messed up, he has no idea of the real world just MJ world - I think it is very sad both for Michael Jackson & the children concerned.

............& no, I'm not a fan.
tell you what Jaycee, I said very similar to my collegues yesterday and they looked at me as if I had grown another head.......

one other thing, as this isnt "new" news, surely the parents of the kids involved have to take some responsibility, I know darn well that if there was a person in our neighbourhood that had previous allegations against him and lived his life like MJ does, I wouldnt be letting my kids stay unsupervised at his house!

One thing I don't get....

If these children were being abused, who forced them to keep going back for more? It isn't the same as being abused by a parent or relative is it? Ah, you may say, but he plied them with money, attention and gifts!

Well I am sorry (and I speak from experience here) - if you are an abused child, it is horrible and you know it is wrong. There is NO WAY you would keep going back for more, just for the sake of presents, attention etc.

Whichever way you look at it, those kids kept going to Neverland because they wanted to. Nobody held a gun to their head.

It's odd how they all suddenly feel so traumatised when there's a sniff of money in the air.

One of the things about certain child molestation cases (which is why often people blame themselves later in life comes in) is the fact that often children enjoy the pleasure that comes with their private parts being stimulated.

They are too young to be doing this and become torn between feeling guilty, nice, sick, ashamed, etc

They are brainwashed and part of them knows they are being wronged but they may wonder why they are also feeling good at times. This is how our bodies were made (to feel good sexually when we are touched in certain ways).

A lot of the children he seemed to have contact with were underpriveleged. We may not know what kind of things were said to them and their past experiences. They may have learnt to trust him and been in awe of his extravagant lifestyle, neverland etc. Children are too young to deal with this type of thing and often feel they have no other choices, they are often unaware of the fact that they have a say. They can be silent whilst their mind is in turmoil and just go along with what they are told to do.

So are you saying that children essentially enjoy sexual activity and are only made to feel ashamed of this by the culture they live in?

No way, absolutely not! Thats not at all what I mean.

In most cases children are forced into doing something they do not want to do and hate it.

Some cases, the child may be forced and manipulated into doing something often with somebody they trust. This is always disgusting and incredibly wrong, some adults prey on a childs innocence and naivety. The child doesn't know how to get out of the situation. They are scared to tell their parents and on occasions, an adult will do something to them that was sexual and horrible, however because of the way that they were stimulated sexually they do not understand as it also felt a little bit nice and blame themselves. They are confused because they know they didn't do anything wrong but feel as though they have. I remember Oprah doing a programme on this, she in fact felt this way as she was sexually abused. She blamed herself and didn't tell anybody.

I don't know exactly how to explain this but have done my best, I will try do some research into this... Do you understand what I am trying to say?

I do, and I can see how it applies when the abuser is a family member and you cannot escape.

I still do not understand why you would return somewhere you never, ever needed to go again for any reason whatsoever, if you were being subjected to abuse.

I was young when something truly horrible happened to me...I knew it was horrible, and I never put myself in that situation again. No amount of money or friendship would persuade me - and yes it was offered.

These were not children of four or five - they were old enough to know whether they wanted to be there or not, and to know whether they liked what happened when they went there.

I find it hard to feel sympathy when they all went back to the man and took his money, time and time again...and as another poster says, when their parents were quite happy to send them off to share the bed of a 40+ year old man with rumours of paedophilia wafting about.

I do, and I can see how it applies when the abuser is a family member and you cannot escape.

I still do not understand why you would return somewhere you never, ever needed to go again for any reason whatsoever, if you were being subjected to abuse.

I was young when something truly horrible happened to me...I knew it was horrible, and I never put myself in that situation again. No amount of money or friendship would persuade me - and yes it was offered.

These were not children of four or five - they were old enough to know whether they wanted to be there or not, and to know whether they liked what happened when they went there.

I find it hard to feel sympathy when they all went back to the man and took his money, time and time again...and as another poster says, when their parents were quite happy to send them off to share the bed of a 40+ year old man with rumours of paedophilia wafting about.

Yes I agree with you... good points. This is what makes the whole thing so weird. To be honest- poedophile or no poedophile- I wouldn't have my kids share a bed with anybody else.

If I were the parents, I think I would have to accept some responsibility here. What astounds me is the hate campaign against Jackson...er, hello? You were all quite happy to send little Johnny off to stay with Uncle Jacko when he was dishing out the readies, now you're saying your little boy was being abused and was deeply traumatised so you continued to allow him to go there anyway? Would any parent here honestly leave their kid to go "playing" with a single, childless man in his 40's who you were not related to under ANY circumstances?

Its unbelievable isn't it!

If I were the parents, I think I would have to accept some responsibility here. What astounds me is the hate campaign against Jackson...er, hello? You were all quite happy to send little Johnny off to stay with Uncle Jacko when he was dishing out the readies, now you're saying your little boy was being abused and was deeply traumatised so you continued to allow him to go there anyway? Would any parent here honestly leave their kid to go "playing" with a single, childless man in his 40's who you were not related to under ANY circumstances?
You put what I try to get across so well Ceri.......

I still maintain that MJ has severe mental health issues too though! THAT does not make him a paedophile though....just, not right!

I think MJ is trapped in limbo. Essentially, he never had a childhood - he was pressured into performing by his father, who beat him repeatedly if he did not do as he was told.

This constant round of putting on a show has taken its toll, and Jackson knows how to do nothing else. Ordinary, straightforward love simply isn't on his agenda, as he's never learned how to do it.

The one thing he has come to realise is that he missed growing up. Inside, he probably yearns to be a little boy, to play with other little boys, to have secrets, to play games....

So in his muddled state, he resorts to acting out this fantasy as as adult, hoping the love he gets from little boys will take away the pain.

Of course it won't. You have to understand what makes an abusive parent abusive...you have to learn that it may be their warped, sick way of showing love...you have to forgive them and stop dwelling on what you were robbed of. Then, you need to give yourself all the things you missed out on - which is very difficult if you have very low self esteem.

I think MJ is trapped in limbo. Essentially, he never had a childhood - he was pressured into performing by his father, who beat him repeatedly if he did not do as he was told.

This constant round of putting on a show has taken its toll, and Jackson knows how to do nothing else. Ordinary, straightforward love simply isn't on his agenda, as he's never learned how to do it.

The one thing he has come to realise is that he missed growing up. Inside, he probably yearns to be a little boy, to play with other little boys, to have secrets, to play games....

So in his muddled state, he resorts to acting out this fantasy as as adult, hoping the love he gets from little boys will take away the pain.

Of course it won't. You have to understand what makes an abusive parent abusive...you have to learn that it may be their warped, sick way of showing love...you have to forgive them and stop dwelling on what you were robbed of. Then, you need to give yourself all the things you missed out on - which is very difficult if you have very low self esteem.


I think you have good insight here. Do you think he has a low self esteem though? He doesn't act like it on stage or in his documentary when he walked around the shop in such an arrogant manner. Perhaps the stage stuff is all learnt though, he has had many years practice.

Apparently they've just announced that MJ has a date for the trial



















his name is Jamie and he's 9 years old....................!! !! !!





Coat in hand and one way ticket to hell in pocket..........I may be gone some time!!

I think you have good insight here. Do you think he has a low self esteem though? He doesn't act like it on stage or in his documentary when he walked around the shop in such an arrogant manner. Perhaps the stage stuff is all learnt though, he has had many years practice.

Claire, never confuse arrogance with confidence. Arrogant people are trying to prove a point - confident people don't NEED to prove a point. Most stars will admit to having low self esteem - that's what spurred them on to become famous in the 1st place - they need the adulation! Most normal, happy people wouldn't want to put themselves through that in a million years!

The quietly confident types are usually the most self assured. Beware the bighead- all is never what it seems.

Food for thought..

When you exercise your freedom to express yourself at the lowest level, you ultimately condemn yourself to live at that level. -Zig Ziglar


She was always going down that’s how she got to the top

She was always going down that’s how she got to the top



who??? I wasn't saying that my signature was food for thought, I was saying what Ceri said was food for thought...

Michael Jackson's mother has said she is "100% certain" her son did not commit the child abuse charges he faces.

Katherine Jackson told US TV network Fox News on Sunday that her pop star son told her he was innocent.

"I believe that for one reason - I know his character," she said.

So - that's that sorted then!

She was always going down that’s how she got to the top




hmmmm, I think I may have caught on? :bangin: