Just a reminder to all the Da Vinci Code fans that this is on tonight, channel 4, 9pm.

Tony Robinson sets out to investigate the truth about the Holy Grail, the chalice believed to have been used by Christ at the Last Supper and the basis for the best-selling thriller The Da Vinci Code.

Should be good watching.

I am SO looking forward to seeing this....and I havent even read the book yet!!

Aaaargggh!! WARNING - Don't watch this if you want to read the book - once you have seen this programme it will RUIN the book for you completely!!

Aaaargggh!! WARNING - Don't watch this if you want to read the book - once you have seen this programme it will RUIN the book for you completely!!
Lol, your right there Ceri, they gave away the premise of the whole book in the first 20 seconds.
But very interesting program.
Basically debunked all the ideas of Dan Brown, and the book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail"
Holy Blood, Holy Grail is just as much fiction as The DaVinci Code is.

It gave it a miss as im in the middle of the book :laugh:

I was quite disappointed with this.

I was pleased to see Tony Robinson presenting cos I thought at least we'd get a representation of the facts & then, maybe not a conclusion but an unbiased representation of the facts......& that's what we got.....initially.

The longer the programme was on & the deeper into the investigation things got, I thought Tony was giving airtime to both views but seemed to be giving much more credence to the 'Bible' version of things.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not a religious person but have been brought up to believe in all that the Bible preaches..........that's not to say I don't have an open mind. I was shocked by the Da Vinci Code but didn't just dismiss it.

Neither side of the story was able to produce compelling evidence to support their story completely but at 1 point, Tony Robinson did dismiss the Da Vinci stuff as 'rubbish'.

'The Last Supper' - it's obvious the person sitting to Jesus' right is a woman - it's not John the Baptist looking effeminate - it's a woman.

But the bit that got my shivers going was the French words for Holy Grail - San Grail. Apparently in a much older language, it was Sang Rail. The Da Vinci Code espouses that the Holy Grail was a Holy Bloodline - Sang Rail, according to last nights programme means 'Holy Blood'.

Not rubbish by any stretch of the imagination.

Sorry to bang on but I expected a documentary about the facts & I don't feel that this is what I got.

Lots of sweeping statements made in this, lots of interesting revelations (eg re the Priory of Sion) and Rosslyn Chapel looked and is amazing.

Ive not long read the book; its pretty poorly written, amateurish almost, but its an easy read, incredibly thrilling and interesting and makes you wonder......

Going back to last nights programme. The person sitting next to Christ in The Last Supper painting most definitely IS a woman. The rest of the disciples are all big hairy, beardy chaps.

Sorry to bang on but I expected a documentary about the facts & I don't feel that this is what I got.
I really think with a subject like this, no-one is ever going to get the full facts.

Lol, your right there Ceri, they gave away the premise of the whole book in the first 20 seconds.
But very interesting program.
Basically debunked all the ideas of Dan Brown, and the book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail"
Holy Blood, Holy Grail is just as much fiction as The DaVinci Code is.
having read some of Holy Blood Holy Grail, I had the gist of what it was about, I started reading it again from the beginning straight after the programme - if anything it helped me.......I was struggling a bit with the "historical timeline" so its all a bit clearer now!

With regards to it being fiction along with The Da Vinci Code......you forgot to add the Bible to that fictional list Andrea :ohmy: :wink2:

'The Last Supper' - it's obvious the person sitting to Jesus' right is a woman - it's not John the Baptist looking effeminate - it's a woman.

But the bit that got my shivers going was the French words for Holy Grail - San Grail. Apparently in a much older language, it was Sang Rail. The Da Vinci Code espouses that the Holy Grail was a Holy Bloodline - Sang Rail, according to last nights programme means 'Holy Blood'.

Not rubbish by any stretch of the imagination.

Sorry to bang on but I expected a documentary about the facts & I don't feel that this is what I got.
I know that many think this is a "conspiricy" but I aint quite ready to rule it out- it all sounds far more believable than a Virgin Birth!!!!

What disappointed me was that the programme glossed over what I consider to be one of the most important points - the destruction of the pagan sacred female.

Historians have discovered that initially, when man worshipped the sun and moon rather than "God", he considered the female to be the sacred one, as she was the one who bore the fruit of the womb. Pregnant women were held in particularly high regard, and greatly revered.

The Christian Church dispensed with all that. Textbooks say that most, or at least a large proportion, of Christian churches are built on old pagan sites. We all know that the Christian festivals of Easter and Christmas are on pagan festival days. Some of you may realise that Father Christmas himself evolved as a mish mash of past pagan idols.

With this new era, the female was demonised. She was portrayed as Eve, created from the man's rib. Again, we all know this is the reverse of the truth. All embryos are created as female- the male elements develop some time later. In fact, man is born of woman, not the other way round, and man is created of woman.

Eve was also cast as weak for eating the forbidden fruit and destroying innocence, while Adam looked serenely on.

Those who would not convert were condemned as witches and burned at the stake - for being guilty of nothing more than worshipping a tree, the sun, the moon and the stars rather than an elusive "God" they felt no connection with. Of course, in these burnings, the female suffered the most.

The menstruating female was condemned as "unclean" - the total opposite to the pagan way of thinking, where menstruation is regarded as a special time, a celebration of the power of the womb.

I do think people should be more aware of the demonisation of women and how it evolved. It would not surprise me if there were some destruction of papers giving a more important role to Mary Magdalene - although the proof is somewhat shaky it seems.

that made interesting reading Ceri, I was aware of many of your points from books and documentaries......

as some of you know already from the old religion thred, I have a bit of a downer on Christianity, in my personal opinion and experience, the devout Christians I have known in my life (and many of them are my family) dont appear to understand WHAT their religion actually stands for, they are bigoted hypocrites who live their lives filled with double standards.

perhaps, because of my strict RC (paternal side - Ma converted when she married Dad) upbringing, this is why I feel so strongly about it all now.....

I was taught to live my life by the Bible, preached to me by priests - one of them was sexually abusing my friend and her brothers and sisters at the same time he was preaching to us on how to live our lives by the laws of God, and my family - all of my Dads side of the family disowned us when my parents split up - my father was an alcoholic bully who was thousands of pounds in debt, but none of them bothered to see if my Mum needed any help or support being on her own with 3 young girls..........

when I was with my ex, we were planning on getting married, his Mum wanted us to have the big white RC wedding (she was Irish catholic too), but I just couldnt do it, I felt that I would be making a mockery of everything that the RC Church stood for - me walking down the aisle in a white VIRGINAL frock, after living with the bloke for 6 years....nah, I couldnt do it, it wouldnt have felt right......

I know that my personal morals and standards have grown from what I was taught as a child, so I guess in some way, I have to thank my misguided fool of a Dad and the RC church for that....I wouldnt be who I am today without it, but, I could not and would not live my life in accordance to the "rules" laid down by the Christian Bible or any other Holy Book......to do that would make me a hypocrite and live my life with double standards, and that just aint me! I think this because of HOW I was bought up Im sure!!

Im not sure WHAT I beleive in, I DO believe that there is a spirit world (most religions have "heaven" and "hell"- i think this is the spirit world, where there is a "light" side and a "dark" side), I believe that the people on Earth should live in harmony with the universe and the organisms that inhabit it (most religions preach this - trouble is, some of the followers dont seem to me to be hearing what is being said), I also believe that if you are a "good" person then you will get good back in return in THIS life and the afterlife (again, most religions teach this, and again, some of the followers seem to miss the point).........

Great posts, Ceri and Queeenie.

I agree with you too Ceri about how they didn't look into the pagan sacred female. I wanted to post something like that myself, but I would never have done it as eloquently as you have.

I'm sorry...I wanted to read your posts but they were so piggin huge just couldnt' be arsed.

Think you hit the nail on the head when you were discussing the church being hypotcritical. Like you I was brought up in a Christian family and for the past few years have really been thinking about my religion.

I think what this programme and indeed the book has done has sparked a debate about where Christianity has developed from. Am in the process of writing essay for my degree on christian feminism and the patriarchal church and bible. Have come to the conclusion that the bible was written by men - men who take charge often have the whole power complex ( think George Bush). Therefore the bible has been corrupted. My lectuer suggested we should let the little old ladies from the church take over all the world goverments, and they would sit and talk all the problems over a cup of tea and a lemon sponge.

My current thinking is that poor god keeps trying to get the message across to the human race and people keep twisting in to suit their ideas - consequently we have many religions.

Can someone help me with any information about the Gospel of Mary Magdelene? Think it might be worth researching for the essay. :)

My current thinking is that poor god keeps trying to get the message across to the human race and people keep twisting in to suit their ideas - consequently we have many religions.

Can someone help me with any information about the Gospel of Mary Magdelene? Think it might be worth researching for the essay. :)
Hi ya Becks.....

I agree with the little old ladies bit, I wouldnt mind joining them!!! I have always thought that women should be in charge - we are multi taskers after all - have to be to run home, family and full time work sucessfully!!!!

I also hear what you are saying with regards to Corruption, if Henry VIII can change the Religion of a whole Country to suit HIS needs, then I cant see why the "Rulers" of the Church cant adapt the Bible and Rules to suit them - just because they are "men of God" doesnt make them flawless!!!

And finally......try the Gnostic Gospels, they should have plenty to keep you occupied......this link may help.......http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

I was quite disappointed with this.

I was pleased to see Tony Robinson presenting cos I thought at least we'd get a representation of the facts & then, maybe not a conclusion but an unbiased representation of the facts......& that's what we got.....initially.

The longer the programme was on & the deeper into the investigation things got, I thought Tony was giving airtime to both views but seemed to be giving much more credence to the 'Bible' version of things.
I don't think Tony Robinson was saying "everything in the Bible is true," only that the theories in HBHG and DVC are rubbish. Or rather, there's absolutely no evidence to support the HBHG and DVC theories.

The "san greal"/"sang real" thing is an amusing coincidence of words but proves absolutely nothing. The St John character next to Jesus in the Last Supper looks a lot like a woman, but again this proves absolutely nothing. Firstly because the art historian guy pointed out that Leonardo Da vinci had a track record of painting effeminate men, and secondly because even if Leonardo did believe that "St John" was a woman it wouldn't provide any proof this was true.

The HBHG theories make an entertaining conspiracy theory, and there's a lot of interesting information in them, there's no more evidence than there is of sightings of Elvis.

As for whether there's facts to back up the Bible, well that's a whole different story... ;)

I agree with the little old ladies bit, I wouldnt mind joining them!!! I have always thought that women should be in charge - we are multi taskers after all - have to be to run home, family and full time work sucessfully!!!!

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Thanks for the bit on the Gnostic gospels, I will look it up. There seems to be so many sites, half the trouble is finding out who wrote it and if they have evidence to support what they are saying.

As for women taking over the world - I've always said that the police should employ mothers as detectives - they always know when you've been up to something.