How to find jurors who will not be biased/preconceived notion of guilt/innocence (positive or negative)? It already sounds like a raving circus. Is this possible?

I think it must be blummin hard to find a jury for this case as im sure all of us are bias one way or the other.

To be honest, i have no idea HOW they are finding jurors (sp).

The thing that puzzles me though, if he were found guilty, would he go to jail ? I mean, how much money would that cost the prison / tax payer in the states as he would need permanent protection in there. He couldnt just be banged up with all the other inmates ... could he ?

Thats why i dont think he will be jailed. It would put too much of a strain on the authorities, and if he was murdered in jail (as all inmates hate prisioners who have done anything to children) there would be a huge outcry.

Like Bonsai I can't imagine Jackson doing jail time. I don't think the court will want or be able to treat him differently in that respect, but if he is found guilty I can imagine all sorts of deals that his team will try to pull to keep him out of jail. If that doesn't work and he is definitely facing a long jail sentence I could see him topping himself to be perfectly honest.

Hasn't the court case been held up, I'm sure I heard that the other day.

Michael Jackson has been taken to hospital with flu, I think.

Yes he was taken ill on Tuesday (I think) and the jury selection was postponed for a week. So it all starts again next Tues.

He spent a couple of days in hospital, but he is out now and back at home.

Yet another example of the circus that this show is likely to become. I mean - who ever spends two days in hospital because they have the flu?

.......I could see him topping himself to be perfectly honest.

I think that is quite a likely outcome.

If he were to be found guilty, what's the maxium sentence the child abuse in state of California. Would he be facing a life sentence?

I agree that Michael's emotional instability could well lead to him committing suicide if he were faced with prison. Whether this would be taken into consideration or not I don't know.

The whole flu thing was a total farce. I don't know what he was trying to achieve. Two days won't make much difference if he's facing a life inside.

I can't see how they could possibly pick a jury who were unbiased unless they selected members of the umbagumba tribe from deepest Africa, who don't have television or any access to the outside world.

If he were to be found guilty, what's the maxium sentence the child abuse in state of California. Would he be facing a life sentence?

I agree that Michael's emotional instability could well lead to him committing suicide if he were faced with prison. Whether this would be taken into consideration or not I don't know.

The whole flu thing was a total farce. I don't know what he was trying to achieve. Two days won't make much difference if he's facing a life inside.

I can't see how they could possibly pick a jury who were unbiased unless they selected members of the umbagumba tribe from deepest Africa, who don't have television or any access to the outside world.
It is going to require serious jury selection here to be fair. This trial, for me, is not only about innocence vs guilt but eccentricity vs conformity celebrity vs anonymity protection vs exposure etc etc etc Difficult themes for anyone to have to disseminate - I am glad I am not a jury member!

I suppose though it will give his team of lawyers a reason to appeal against the verdict. Is suppose there is people out there without a tv, but are they really a jury of his peers?

I have worked previously in a mental health hospital and my patients used to say if hes sane then why am I here? I think hes got some deep problems, the surgery on his face, a fairground in his back garden and sharing a bed with children. If he did'nt have the money I think the doctors would have locked him up years ago, but then maybe its the money thats caused a lot of his problems, a missing childhood, a deep identity problem.

I've just read an interesting (and very balanced) biography on MJ and agree with SF, I can't ever see him going to prison. Apparently he has never even been in a lift with 'normal people' (his words - according to the book) and always takes service lifts to avoid being in a space with members of the public. I think he really does regard himself as something 'other' possibly due to his lack of socialization throughout his life. I'm quite sure that emotionally he would be unable to cope with prison on any level.

I've just read an interesting (and very balanced) biography on MJ and agree with SF, I can't ever see him going to prison. Apparently he has never even been in a lift with 'normal people' (his words - according to the book) and always takes service lifts to avoid being in a space with members of the public. I think he really does regard himself as something 'other' possibly due to his lack of socialization throughout his life. I'm quite sure that emotionally he would be unable to cope with prison on any level.

That's interesting. If you saw the Bashir doc the thing that really struck me was how the absolute abnormality of his social was his norm. He is often treated like a messiah or a child without discipline/boundaries or as a genius in a surreal landscape. In a way his presentation and behaviour are norm in response to his particular environment and out of step with the normal/human/regular world (if you know what I mean). A prison, yep, that would put him in crisis mode.

It's not looking too good for him at the moment is it? I know it's early days in the trial, but the boys have given testimony in court about what he did, which in itself sounds enough to put him away. I suppose his defence team will try to discredit them to cast doubt on their testimony.

It's not looking too good for him at the moment is it? I know it's early days in the trial, but the boys have given testimony in court about what he did, which in itself sounds enough to put him away. I suppose his defence team will try to discredit them to cast doubt on their testimony.
I dont know quite what to make of this trial. Turning up to court in PJ's. The money involved. Bashir doc displayed intimacy between MJ and boy but why would you allow that to be broadcast if you were molesting them? That, fundamentally for me, just doesnt make sense. MJs world is most definitely not the norm. I think you need more than a child's testimony here. Eye witness testimony are riddled with holes. Is there any actual proof? I am glad I am not a member of the jury.

Is there any actual proof?

I'm no legal eagle, but I think sworn statements can be enough to convict especially if there's enough supporting evidence to lead the jury think he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

If a woman is raped by a man and there are no witnesses and no DNA, does she ever stand a chance of winning her case - if not there is a flaw somewhere.

I'm no legal eagle, but I think sworn statements can be enough to convict especially if there's enough supporting evidence to lead the jury think he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

If a woman is raped by a man and there are no witnesses and no DNA, does she ever stand a chance of winning her case - if not there is a flaw somewhere.

Sworn statement in court with accompanying tv doc stating the very opposite. That's why I am thinking, where is the evidence to swing in one direction at this point in time?

I think relying solely on a sworn statement is inherent with difficulties. I would like to think that someone tells the truth in court but we know that this is not always the case. It is difficult to say anything really in general terms out of context because generally that is what provides depth to statements.

I am officially out on this trial. Who knows?

It is difficult to say anything really in general terms out of context because generally that is what provides depth to statements.


I don't understand this.

If Jackson doesn't go down for this, which I don't think he will, Martin Bashir better watch out.
I'm sure Jackson's lawyers will be onto him for causing all this grief.
Because basically it all started after the "charming" :wink2: Bashir aired his program.

A statement on its own would be unlikely to be enough, if there are no witnesses and no DNA evidence. The fact is, a lot of men ARE acquitted of rape under these circumstances, and thousands more are acquitted of assault of varying degrees (where it cannot be proved who threw the punch etc). Statements are even less useful where the "victim" has something to gain, such as in this case (are you telling me the families won't sue him for emotional distress if they win?)

Cases have to be won on hard evidence (unless the USA is different to here; I don't know enough about their legal system to know but Blink may be able to shed light on this). It will help that there is more than one accuser, of course.

I also wonder why Jackson's team didn't plead guilty on the grounds of diminished responsibility (or whatever equivalent they have there). If he HAS abused them, I am quite sure he is so utterly barking mad that in his own mind, it isn't wrong, even if it is wrong in the eyes of the law. I mean, the guy is a total fruit loop.

It will be interesting to see what happens when his team take the stand.

I don't understand this.
sorry, you pick up that i dont write clearly. tired thought processes, that's my excuse! What I mean is that a sworn statement on its own is not strong enough. It is the context of the alleged crime e.g. relationship to person, dna, injuries, hx of offences, in this case, other instances of following the legal path for monetary awards etc etc. For me to make a general statement about sworn statements doesnt really make sense.

I think because MJ stands out, a bit like Boo Radley, it is easy to think he is guilty. He may well be but he shouldnt be found guilty on the basis of his altered reality and different mannerisms. He should be found guilty based on strong evidence. The sworn testimony of this child is in doubt because he made an appearance of tv declaring friendship. Yes, he could have been manipulated into doing that but how can that be proved? I think it needs to be proved in order for this case to stand up. And for all the people who may be falsely accused. Unfortunately, the accuser needs to be strong to withstand such a trial and interrogation.

I don't really know what to make of all this at all. The biography I read claims that MJ suffers terrible panic attacks and has been addicted to pain killers in the past (initially taken for a back injury) I think we are beginning to see some signs of him 'unravelling' and his anxiety problems coming to the fore. MJ is usually not on public display unless he wants to be, so that alone will be beyond stressful for him. He's used to being able to control his enviromnet and those in it, but not this time.

Whatever the truth, and I doubt we'll ever really know, MJ clearly needs some serious psychological help.

From the pictures I saw of MJ this morning on the news, he looks extremely fragile, anorexic and probably unravelling emotionally too. There are some questions emerging now, for me, regarding his fitness to be part of this process. Or, as the news reporter, was suggesting, is it all an act? I dont know, he looks drugged and very delicate.

From the pictures I saw of MJ this morning on the news, he looks extremely fragile, anorexic and probably unravelling emotionally too. There are some questions emerging now, for me, regarding his fitness to be part of this process. Or, as the news reporter, was suggesting, is it all an act? I dont know, he looks drugged and very delicate.

I agree with you. It said on the news that there would be another 3 months (at least) of this trial left - and he didnt look like he could stand another 3 hours !!!!

It could all be an act, or maybe he knows he will get imprisoned so is starving himself to death - which could be why he looks soooo thin, and sooo weak.

I agree with you. It said on the news that there would be another 3 months (at least) of this trial left - and he didnt look like he could stand another 3 hours !!!!

It could all be an act, or maybe he knows he will get imprisoned so is starving himself to death - which could be why he looks soooo thin, and sooo weak.

Starving to death, now theres a thought. He reminds me of Boo Radley from To Kill A Mockingbird. Still, I dont know what I think around all of this but ethical issues are certainly now slowly emerging.