Morbid subject I know but here goes......

Something came up in my lecture today about societies attitude to death. The lecturer was putting the case that since people have moved to the cities and towns they have become to remove themselves more and more from death. This has a consequences in that we now think of our own death less and less.

Do you think hes right? or has death always been a subject not to talk about? If so, am sorry for raising it. Also do you think its right how our society deals with it?

The lecturer was putting the case that since people have moved to the cities and towns they have become to remove themselves more and more from death. This has a consequences in that we now think of our own death less and less.

I think it's a good topic Becks, but I don't really understand what your lecturer was saying. How has migration to towns and cities resulted in a reduction in folk thinking about their own mortality? Does he/she means that we are further away from nature and therefore natural cycle of life and death that might be more obvious in the country? Or that living in the city makes one feel more indestructable in some way?

Sorry if I'm being a bit dense! :huh:

I think it's a good topic Becks, but I don't really understand what your lecturer was saying. How has migration to towns and cities resulted in a reduction in folk thinking about their own mortality? Does he/she means that we are further away from nature and therefore natural cycle of life and death that might be more obvious in the country? Or that living in the city makes one feel more indestructable in some way?

Sorry if I'm being a bit dense! :huh:

His arguement was that moving to towns and cities means

a. we don't really have as much contact with the life and death cycle ie if you want meat you go into the supermarket and buy a pre-packaged item.

b. our rituals around death have changed. For example one set of my grandparents lived on an island off the west coast of scotland. When they died most of the community was involved in the process, in my grandfathers case moving the body back to the island, washing and preparing the body, etc.My other set of grandparents died in a town on the mainland. This experience was much more of a production line, ambulance removes body, hearse drops off pre-packaged body at church and delivers to cemetary.

As a consequence we think of death less and less, even though it is the one inevitable. I think there was also a case that modern science has us thinking we are indestructible.

I think collectively we dont respond to death in the same way. The loss of community, dreaming, religion/spiritual practices. However, there is an increase, I believe, in Buddhism where death is fundamentally important to living. Books such as the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, preparing for the moment of passing to the next life.
I remember when my father died and I was surrounded by psychologists and not one of them could say the death word to be. Grieving is an awkward, difficult, uncomfortable process for so many and yet it is, for sure, the one thing we will all experience.
I have also been critically ill twice and it has been an interesting experience. Something about facing the possibility of dying yourself which is a challenge and seeing the awkwardness/discomfort/difficulty of others.
In the Tarot the death card signifies major change/transformation. In nature death is fundamental part of life. Compare this to the major rejuvenation so many of us are interested in today.
One more point, I read an article today about high profile splits or deaths of partners and new relationships formed quickly. The article was about public opinion. For me, I see people wanting to skip over loss and get onto the next relationship/experience. I think people can be very illequipped now to mourn, grieve, hurt, experience emotional pain. Just some thoughts.

I don't really mind talking about death. I stayed at my mate's house last night and she recently lost her father, and we talked and talked about him and the process, and other peoples reactions to it. She said it was refreshing to be able to talk about loss, death and greiving.

As a few will know I have my death all sorted out - well not death as such but the arrangements for it - if you see what I mean. We all have - and again I mean all the older ones in the family.

Living in the country, in a very small community, we hear of every single death surrounding us for miles and miles - and more often than not - we will know someone in the family and therefore end up going to the funeral. I don't want to say I am surrounded by it - but I can certainly understand what your lecturer means Becks!

When I lived in the City, if someone died in the next street I wouldn't have a clue who they were or why they had died etc. But here even though they may live 15 miles away - we get to know about it, we generally know them or like I say a member of their family.

And I suppose I see the natural life/death cycle on a regular basis, I see the Mart every Wednesday where all the beasts go to be sold for meat. The farm shop near us sells all the animals that we see daily. I see the foxes kill our chickens, and road kills of course. So death holds no fear for me.

I dont mind talking about death, my family and friends are the same, we have a friend who died last week in Goa, bless him, early 30's, had a motorbike accident out there..........he wasnt wearing a crash helmet :sad:

I know when my brother in law died, it was a very difficult time because he had been split from my sister for some months because of his heroin addiction......it was hard because not only was he my BIL, he was one of my oldest friends, and we had tried so hard for several years to get him to sort himself out, but he had too many demons......

once the initial shock had passed, we found we spent the next few weeks laughing AND crying, we would start off bawling, then the next thing someone would say, do you remember when he did this, or did that, and we would all be falling about laughing through our tears.....

I think we should celebrate someones life, not get maudlin, after BIL's funeral, all of his/our friends and some of the family (the youngsters, we left the parents at the Irish Club) all went to our local pub and we had a party for him, we cranked up the speakers and played all his favourite tunes, then we let off a few hundred quids worth of fireworks and rockets for him.......

they did the same for Justin last week in Leamington, it was quite poigniant as it was Justin who actually orgainsed and lit the fireworks for my BIL......

All of my family and friends know what I want when I pop me clogs, a cardboard box with me in it with an ounce of finest skunk......then cremated (IF I could have a funeral pyre then even better!!!!!) I want Pink Floyd blasting from the speakers, lots of bright colours, NO black, none of the God malarkey, I want a humanist service, I find a religious service very depressing......... and then when all thats done, I want my ashes scattered from Glastonbury Tor!

All of my family and friends know what I want when I pop me clogs, a cardboard box with me in it with an ounce of finest skunk......then cremated (IF I could have a funeral pyre then even better!!!!!) I want Pink Floyd blasting from the speakers, lots of bright colours, NO black, none of the God malarkey, I want a humanist service, I find a religious service very depressing......... and then when all thats done, I want my ashes scattered from Glastonbury Tor!
Pink Floyd eh? I think "Always look on the bright side of life" followed by a few Laurel and Hardy comic moments and champagne and guinness...

Pink Floyd eh? I think "Always look on the bright side of life" followed by a few Laurel and Hardy comic moments and champagne and guinness...

I dont find my beloved Floyd depressing like some do.......

My mate Zsa Zsa wants Hello Dolly played at her funeral :w00t:

once the initial shock had passed, we found we spent the next few weeks laughing AND crying, we would start off bawling, then the next thing someone would say, do you remember when he did this, or did that, and we would all be falling about laughing through our tears.....


I think it depends on how the individual dies. When my mainland grandpa died we were expecting it, he had had dementia for years and it was only his shell left. When the family gathered we did laugh and celebrate because it was like we had all been released. Sadly during the early hours of the day of his funeral my granny collapsed. It was a highly tramatic experience. I still remember sitting there later that day completely shell shocked as people came into the church and whispered about who the second coffin belonged to. Her death the family was just numb with shock.

I think there is a real difference in rural and urban deaths. We did not expect my island grannies death. But when the family gathered the community pulled around and helped. Allowing us the time to just be and grief.

I still think the majority of people are really uncomfortable with this kind of conversation. Maybe its because they are not comfortable with their own beliefs and consequently their destiny after death.

All of my family and friends know what I want when I pop me clogs, a cardboard box with me in it with an ounce of finest skunk......then cremated (IF I could have a funeral pyre then even better!!!!!) I want Pink Floyd blasting from the speakers, lots of bright colours, NO black, none of the God malarkey, I want a humanist service, I find a religious service very depressing......... and then when all thats done, I want my ashes scattered from Glastonbury Tor!

ps with you on the cardboard box front. Theres a place I think in Aberdeenshire that puts you in a cardboard box then into the ground and plants a tree on top. Eventually it will become a whole forest. I always liked the idea of my family coming and letting the dogs run about the wood, rather than go to a cemetary, its a far better memorial.

However I get hit by a car tomorrow I want to be shiped back up to the inner hebredies where my grandparents are. It overlooks the beach, so when we go visit we have a wonderful view, and then go play with my nephew on the beach after.

I suppose your view of death is coloured by your life's experiences on the whole, regardless of where you live, although I'd agree that's almost certainly a factor.

As a young nurse I saw many deaths and have spoken about dying many times with my friends and colleagues, as a student nurse/doctor it's pretty unavoidable and I guess we were forced to either deal with it or sink. But still, my views are not at all negative and having seen the suffering that also went before I can accept most of the passings I saw as blessings for those who suffered, if not for those they left behind. I'm not scared of death myself, but I do fear ill health and infirmity. So I guess my view may be different to someone who has not had my experiences of death and similar to others who have, certainly my hubby (a GP) and I share the same views.

Like Queenie we have decided that we both want non-religious services, in fact I don't want a service at all and I have forbidden anyone to spend more that £100 on the whole operation. I want a cardbord box, no hearse, a cremation and scattering of ashes, and that's it. No music, no mourning and no flowers.

It sounds really miserable of me, but I'd rather the money were spent on the living to be honest :)

If attitudes have changed I'm not so sure it's due to the rural-city divide. There have been large cities for a couple of hundred years, and I strongly suspect that our city living predecessors did at one time feel closer to the death issue than modern city dwellers.

For me, it is down to developments in science and medicine that might be at the heart of it. We do not as a rule have to live with the threat of death hanging over us at every stage of our lives. At one time women died regularly in childbirth, infant mortality was high, and even simple infections could kill. Nowadays medicine can cure all that. Now, not only can we forget about he Grim Reaper, we can reverse the aging process, with hormone therapy, plastic surgery, and the like - look at the American love affair with looking youthful - and there are even people with enough money to have their dead bodies frozen in the hope that they can be revived once science finds out how to do it.

- and there are even people with enough money to have their dead bodies frozen in the hope that they can be revived once science finds out how to do it.
This is something that I cannot get my head around, a form of egocentricism or extreme stupidity or something that I cant even think of???

For me, it is down to developments in science and medicine that might be at the heart of it. We do not as a rule have to live with the threat of death hanging over us at every stage of our lives. At one time women died regularly in childbirth, infant mortality was high, and even simple infections could kill. Nowadays medicine can cure all that. Now, not only can we forget about he Grim Reaper, we can reverse the aging process, with hormone therapy, plastic surgery, and the like - look at the American love affair with looking youthful - and there are even people with enough money to have their dead bodies frozen in the hope that they can be revived once science finds out how to do it.

But I think people forget we still do have the threat (if threat is the correct word) hanging over us. I don't know who said it but theres only two certain things in life and thats death and taxes. We can attempt to control it, preserve the body we are in. But its an inevitable.

I think this effort to control through science is actually a sympton of the breaking away of traditional ways of dealing with death.

I don't think many people like to think of death, its one thing that confuses the hell out of most people and can be quite a scary thought...

ps with you on the cardboard box front. Theres a place I think in Aberdeenshire that puts you in a cardboard box then into the ground and plants a tree on top. Eventually it will become a whole forest. I always liked the idea of my family coming and letting the dogs run about the wood, rather than go to a cemetary, its a far better memorial.

However I get hit by a car tomorrow I want to be shiped back up to the inner hebredies where my grandparents are. It overlooks the beach, so when we go visit we have a wonderful view, and then go play with my nephew on the beach after.

There's a FAB place in Brighton (did I just say that about a funeral parlour:shocking: )

Anyway - they do papier mache pods that you can have decorated however you want, and then give you the send off you want - New Orleans Marching Band, back garden whatever.

Apparently someone has booked a Viking funeral off the beach when the time comes.

Seems a shame though that you'd miss a great party...:sad:

PS *off topic* Becks, what island are we talking about? My chidhood was spent looking out over to Islay and Jura so I'm intrigued (and nosey:bag: )

PS *off topic* Becks, what island are we talking about? My chidhood was spent looking out over to Islay and Jura so I'm intrigued (and nosey:bag: )

The lovely island of tiree,

Sh*t happens you die

The lovely island of tiree,

I have never been there Becks, but I have friends who go there every year to wind-surf. My cousin is a cable engineer and spent a week on Tiree, he loved it so much that he took his family for a holiday later that year. He said the beaches are just superb and the weather can be absolutely lovely.

The lovely island of tiree,

I have never been there Becks, but I have friends who go there every year to wind-surf. My cousin is a cable engineer and spent a week on Tiree, he loved it so much that he took his family for a holiday later that year. He said the beaches are just superb and the weather can be absolutely lovely.

Like Queenie we have decided that we both want non-religious services, in fact I don't want a service at all and I have forbidden anyone to spend more that £100 on the whole operation. I want a cardbord box, no hearse, a cremation and scattering of ashes, and that's it. No music, no mourning and no flowers.

It sounds really miserable of me, but I'd rather the money were spent on the living to be honest :)

I am with you on most of this voice but I can't go with you on this
funerals are for the livening not the dead
it is so that they can find closer
many people can't come to terms with the loss until the see there loved one laid to rest or slip behind the curtain
and anyway for hundred quid you won't get a service best make it a grand and that will get you something very simple

I don't think many people like to think of death, its one thing that confuses the hell out of most people and can be quite a scary thought...

The sooner you come to terms with the fact you are gonna die one day

The easier it is to live your life

I am with you on most of this voice but I can't go with you on this
funerals are for the livening not the dead
it is so that they can find closer
many people can't come to terms with the loss until the see there loved one laid to rest or slip behind the curtain


...but lots can! I've seen two parents off, and TBH the second funeral was just a big hassle. Although one mourner did seem to find closure as he was very upset - got everyone's attention.

Shame he was at the wrong church really.

I shan't care what happens to me - I don't intend leaving any money to pay for anything, that's for sure!

Me two but I think I would let my loved ones spend what that like
I would not demand it one way or the other
burn me and bury me in the back garden I don’t care

burn me and bury me in the back garden I don’t care

OK - but I'm a bit busy today...:)

OK - but I'm a bit busy today...:)

Cheeky.........................anyone we know ? http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_4.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm22755GB)

Ah Becks - Tiree! We used to say you could tell people from Tiree because they stood at an angle from the wind...:laugh:

I think with reference to what your lecturer said, it is the access to more services in connurbations that makes us lazy in dealing with all sorts of stuff, including death.

Growing up in a remote part of Scotland, we learned to get on with things ourselves. Not to say that that included DIY funerals personally, but with only one undertaker, (and him either at a wake or recovering from one) the locals tended to get on and do whatever was needed in terms of laying out the body etc.

Now apparently it is all slick and organised and the same as everywhere else.

I thing the best idea came from the film Solent Green http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_8_6.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm22755GB)

Sh*t happens you dieNo no no - it's compost. Compost happens when you die. If you're buried, that is.

and anyway for hundred quid you won't get a service best make it a grand and that will get you something very simple

But that's just it Cockney, I don't want a service, of any kind. I know what you mean about funerals being for the living, but my lot know what a grumpy mare I am about it anyway!

My problem really is that I've seen too many people fork out ridiculous sums of money for a chipboard coffin with faux brass handles that cost a fortune (and would be burned anyway) because they felt bad at ordering the cheapest coffin for their loved one. It just annoyts me and there's no legal requirement to use an undertaker but people rarely know this or think to ask when they are understandably upset.

This is something that I cannot get my head around, a form of egocentricism or extreme stupidity or something that I cant even think of???

I think this is a fear based action, fear and hope rolled into one eccentric and wealthy package!!

Talking of DIY type of funerals - this wasn't as such but my very good friend's Dad died, she was understandably devastated. Her Mum and her had him back at the house laid out in the front room. [my friend didn't live at home].

She, my mate, received a frantic phone call from her Mum saying the house is on fire. The candles in the front room, around her Dad, had caught alight. So Sarah drove like a loony to her Mum's to find the fire brigade tackling quite a large house fire.

She ran up the path shouting 'My Dad, my Dad'. A fireman restrained her and told her her Dad would be fine and they would get him out. She was shouting 'No, he is dead', they were saying 'No, we don't know that, we will get him out, where is he'. So Sarah, out of her head with upset, panic, grief shouted 'in the front room but he is dead!!' - this went on for some time ....

.... Well you can imagine?? They eventually put the fire out, and brought her Dad out who was a tad singed - but in relatively good order.

Anyway - he was returned to the funeral home where he stayed till the funeral.

The day of the funeral came and we all went to the service at the Church, followed by the burial. Sarah and her Mum were just beside themselves with grief - at the end of the burial Sarah threw a rose onto the coffin, and then her Mum did likewise - but this was closely followed by her handbag!!

So one of the coffin bearers was lowered head first into this pretty deep grave, with the other guys holding onto his ankles - and yes he did, he fell in too.

Sarah at this point just lost it and had the biggest and funniest fit of the giggles I have ever witnessed, her Mum followed suit and then we all did.

And you know what?? I think her Dad orchestrated the whole thing - because with laughter came release, with laughter came happy memories and they were able to cope with an element of fun and goodness.

It was the best funeral I have ever been to.

Oh, Flip, you even have loony friends!! I shouldn't laugh but you can't help but, can you?

Why is death taking so seriously? We all celebrate when a new life is brought into the world, why should we not celebrate their passing? I appreciate it is a sad occassion to lose someone special, especially if you are close to that person.

I personally would not want anyone to wear black, but wear bright colours and rejoice. I am in favour of a cardboard box with a few seeds thrown over the ground for flowers, trees etc to grow.

Oh, Flip, you even have loony friends!! I shouldn't laugh but you can't help but, can you?

Why is death taking so seriously? We all celebrate when a new life is brought into the world, why should we not celebrate their passing? I appreciate it is a sad occassion to lose someone special, especially if you are close to that person.

I personally would not want anyone to wear black, but wear bright colours and rejoice. I am in favour of a cardboard box with a few seeds thrown over the ground for flowers, trees etc to grow.

Good idea but how can I dance on your coffin if it’s made out of cardboard

Ah Becks - Tiree! We used to say you could tell people from Tiree because they stood at an angle from the wind...:laugh:

I think with reference to what your lecturer said, it is the access to more services in connurbations that makes us lazy in dealing with all sorts of stuff, including death.

Growing up in a remote part of Scotland, we learned to get on with things ourselves. Not to say that that included DIY funerals personally, but with only one undertaker, (and him either at a wake or recovering from one) the locals tended to get on and do whatever was needed in terms of laying out the body etc.

Now apparently it is all slick and organised and the same as everywhere else.

Its true, we get off the ferry and within seconds we are at an angle, hair goes into complete curls and cheeks go red. But when I get back to the mainland its great as tiree often has highest sunshine count so have very good tan.

Back to death. Thanks Flip for the story - it really lightened the whole subject. My great uncle fell at Arnhem. A few years ago my father was the first member of the family to visit the grave. On it was written "To live in hearts we leave behind is not to die". Its one of my fravourite quotes as it has helped me to come to terms, and allow death however hard to be a celebration.

I remember reading in the USA about a DIY funeral supermarket. You could go in and buy what ever you needed from a cardboard box to the stone to mark the place.

I think when death happens suddenly people arn't actually thinking when they are organising funerals and so they follow local customs as they are easier to organise. I think its quite scary we spend a lot of money at a time that we are so emotionaly vunerable.

As for only spending a £100 on a funeral - thats not going to buy a lot of alcohol. I want everyone to still where black (traditionalist in me) but on the evening I want a party with a celiebh (sorry spelling part of brain not working). Its hard not to think of good memories when you are being swung across the dance floor at 100mph.

I think when death happens suddenly people arn't actually thinking when they are organising funerals and so they follow local customs as they are easier to organise. I think its quite scary we spend a lot of money at a time that we are so emotionaly vunerable.

As for only spending a £100 on a funeral - thats not going to buy a lot of alcohol. I want everyone to still where black (traditionalist in me) but on the evening I want a party with a celiebh (sorry spelling part of brain not working). Its hard not to think of good memories when you are being swung across the dance floor at 100mph.

Totally agree with the first paragraph Becks, it is scary and it's such an emotional thing.....if people think at all are they wondering ....does it mean I loved them less if I get the cheaper one??? etc.

Re the second, well there won't be any alcohol at my wake because I'm not having one! So £100 will cover it fine :)

Totally agree with the first paragraph Becks, it is scary and it's such an emotional thing.....if people think at all are they wondering ....does it mean I loved them less if I get the cheaper one??? etc.

Re the second, well there won't be any alcohol at my wake because I'm not having one! So £100 will cover it fine :)


No beer I'm not coming to your funeral then

Tight ****

You can get scattered over the Snowy Mountains on your own

your gonna do this now ain't cha http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_103v.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm22755GB)

No beer I'm not coming to your funeral then

Tight ****

You can get scattered over the Snowy Mountains on your own

your gonna do this now ain't cha http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_103v.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm22755GB)


Lol, listen Cockney, it's quite simple, I'm not paying for a party I can't be at, and that's final! :laugh:

Im personally scared of death, although i love talking about it. My mum point blank refuses to talk about death at all.

I think the reason im scared (as im sure a lot of other people are) is because i dont know what happens when you die. I mean, is there reincarnation ? Is there a place in heaven where you meet all your long lost relatives and animals ?

I personally would rather believe in the latter - but i would love to have concrete proof that the afterlife does exist, and then i wont fear death anymore.


As for my funeral - i really dont care. You can cremate me, or bury me (although i lean towards a burial). As for a party - nah i dont think so. I think i would rather a small wake, with just family and friends nibbling sarnies and drinking gin .... oh and wearing Kaftans (Flippy, you will have to attend too as part of the 'Kaftan Club' :w00t: ).

As for my funeral - i really dont care ... nibbling sarnies and drinking gin .... oh and wearing Kaftans (Flippy, you will have to attend too as part of the 'Kaftan Club' :w00t: ).

Bonnie love, gin and my very bestest kaftan YES - sarnies?? - no darling, it will have to be at the very least Belgian Choccies and Bulgarian cavier canapes. :wink_kiss

Bonnie love, gin and my very bestest kaftan YES - sarnies?? - no darling, it will have to be at the very least Belgian Choccies and Bulgarian cavier canapes. :wink_kiss

Lol Flippy - ok, you've twisted my arm (not that you had to twist very hard :cool2: ). Choccies and caviar it is :thumbsup:

Its sounds like a good old doo actually, i wish i could attend :wink2: Maybe we should have a trial run, so we can get it right on the night :w00t:

Lol, listen Cockney, it's quite simple, I'm not paying for a party I can't be at, and that's final! :laugh:

Who said you can't go to it - would'nt it be fun to come back as a ghost in the middle of the wake and say "ha ha you thought you got rid of me and now am going to haunt you" then after a few drinks (spirits of course) you can tell them you were only joking.


I think you are right Bonsai about people being scared of death. I do think there is something in a traditional rural set up being able to cope better with death. But the fact that people have largely lost their faith also is playing a factor in that we have started to view death as a threat, rather than a continuation.

As for what you do with my body - hate the thought of being burned, burry me please.

As for what you do with my body - hate the thought of being burned, burry me please.

Isnt it funny, I have the same sort of fear but its the opposite of yours Becks, mine is fear of being stuck in the ground as "worm food" and then left to rot.....therefore have decided to be burnt!

Who said you can't go to it - would'nt it be fun to come back as a ghost in the middle of the wake and say "ha ha you thought you got rid of me and now am going to haunt you" then after a few drinks (spirits of course) you can tell them you were only joking.

Lol, nah, I don't believe in ghosts either :wink2:

Isnt it funny, I have the same sort of fear but its the opposite of yours Becks, mine is fear of being stuck in the ground as "worm food" and then left to rot.....therefore have decided to be burnt!

maybe if they put me on a boat and sent it burning out to sea - but they proably arnt allowed to do that anymore. Its the thought of the crem, just being rolled off to the production line.

As for what you do with my body - hate the thought of being burned, burry me please.

I am a definite burier too - I used to detest the idea of being burned, but I was recently intrigued to learn that you can be made into a diamond - once your ashes are collected.

So I wavered for a little while whether I should be a diamond - it means I can continue being a girls best friend.

But after much thought, I am much happier feeding the worms and bugs.

I am a definite burier too - I used to detest the idea of being burned, but I was recently intrigued to learn that you can be made into a diamond - once your ashes are collected.

So I wavered for a little while whether I should be a diamond - it means I can continue being a girls best friend.

But after much thought, I am much happier feeding the worms and bugs.

From what i remember its not a twinkling one but an industrial diamond - so unless you want to start factory work as part of your afterlife worms and bugs sound good.

OOOH No Becks


The diamonds are lovely sparkly ones, usually a goldy yellow colour.
You can have pets diamonded too :)

M

What a great thread - sorry if that sounds unthoughtful.
I should come here more often.
The outlook on death and how we percieve it changes from decade to decade.
Victorian times are for me especially significant.(Who shouted how old is secrets anyway?)
In those times death was a public thing and celebrated in public, whilst sex was taboo and hidden.
I may well come back to this as i have some experience.
(Oh yes i have died twice so who is the expert?)
Just leave you with this link for now.
http://www.deathonline.net/remembering/mourning/victorian.cfm

What a great thread - sorry if that sounds unthoughtful.
I should come here more often.
The outlook on death and how we percieve it changes from decade to decade.
Victorian times are for me especially significant.(Who shouted how old is secrets anyway?)
In those times death was a public thing and celebrated in public, whilst sex was taboo and hidden.
I may well come back to this as i have some experience.
(Oh yes i have died twice so who is the expert?)
Just leave you with this link for now.
http://www.deathonline.net/remembering/mourning/victorian.cfm

Wow you've taken this topic to a new level.

The bit on photos of the dead was a little weird, but then again time will judge us all to be a little weird. I saw it on that Nicole Kidman film - the one where shes really dead.

As for the children being part of the whole process. I think its an interesting one that in this country we 'protect' our children from death. As a child (around 11 years) I did not see the body and did not go to the actual service of my granny. My sisters were left at home in Yorkshire. I dont miss not having seen the body but I regret that we three children were not able to go to the funeral. When my grandfather died after a long battle with skin cancer my younger cousins (around 11&13years) saw the body and go to the funeral. It was really important for them as for the last 3months grandpa had lived with them and they were able to see that he was at peace. My other cousins of similar ages though were kept away.

Are we really protecting our children by keeping them away? Is this process part of what makes death scary rather than another part of life?

As for the children being part of the whole process. I think its an interesting one that in this country we 'protect' our children from death. As a child (around 11 years) I did not see the body and did not go to the actual service of my granny. My sisters were left at home in Yorkshire. I dont miss not having seen the body but I regret that we three children were not able to go to the funeral. When my grandfather died after a long battle with skin cancer my younger cousins (around 11&13years) saw the body and go to the funeral. It was really important for them as for the last 3months grandpa had lived with them and they were able to see that he was at peace. My other cousins of similar ages though were kept away.

Are we really protecting our children by keeping them away? Is this process part of what makes death scary rather than another part of life?

I am absolutely petrified of anything to do with death, in fact I have only ventured into this topic after a deep breath. It is something I do not look forward to having to face.

But what you were saying there Becks touched a relevant feeling with me. I was 'protected' from funerals and the like when I was little, in fact I've only ever been to one and that was not even a relative, and it was just a few years back. I was always brought up to think it was something that you just don't talk about or deal with in any shape or form.

I remember my uncle dying of cancer when I was 8. I vividly remember going to the hospital and hearing my dad saying to someone that the kids shouldn't go in as it was so awful. I still remember the fear that came over me when he said that, and to this day, I hate hospitals.

My children will, when the time arrives, attend funerals with me. I feel it should be an open and honest topic discussed with them if they so wish.

My children will, when the time arrives, attend funerals with me. I feel it should be an open and honest topic discussed with them if they so wish.

I totally agree with this. A few years back one of the other boys in my son's class was sadly killed on his way home from school, and the whole class arrived at school the next day to hear this news. The school handled the whole thing fantastically well and the form teacher personally phoned every parent that night to discuss how their child was coping etc. They were all asked if they wanted to attend the funeral and decided, on their own, that they would like to sing as a class and be part of the service. Mr V and I both went with our lad and although it was very sad I was so proud of them all standing there determined to do their best.

We talked a lot about death following that and although there were lots of tears and it was very emotional I think it was a very valuable experience.

My children will, when the time arrives, attend funerals with me. I feel it should be an open and honest topic discussed with them if they so wish.

I agree that this is the right thing to do, when my mum and dad died all 3 of my children, attended both funerals....

I do think it helps them come to terms with death and although they were all upset, I think it helped give them closure.

My first real experience of someone dieing was a young girl in are village. She was six and I must have been eleven but we played often together. My parents wanted to protect me and so I was never asked if I wanted to go to the funeral. I know they did this to try and protect me - but what is that they were trying to protect me from, they are committed christians so surely she was going to a good place.

When I have children I will take them to funerals of people they know. I also find that seeing children at funerals gives me great comfort, that when theres death there is also life.

I am not a very good example to my children at funerals. I haven't taken them to one yet - I always without fail get the giggles, it is obviously nerves and/or grief. But at both my Grandmothers and Nan's funerals I was beside myself with the giggles, which set off Mr F and my sister. We really got told off by my Mum however.

I even giggled at my Dad's funeral ... well I saw the 3 white roses [from me, Mum and sis] we had put on the coffin with the words 'GRBR from your girls' - and that stood for 'Good Riddance to Bad Rubbish' - a catchphrase of his!!

A friend of mine's husband died recently, and she took her 8 year old to his Dad's funeral, he broke his heart and he still worries about it, and my friend said she wished that she hadn't taken him - she would have rather let him say goodbye privately.

I have only been to three funerals, and i hate them. I cry so much its unbearable.

Ive always been very emotional, and even if i went to a complete strangers funeral i would cry buckets.

I find them soooo emotionally draining, and i hate every minute. I cry so hard my nose also runs and by the end of the funeral i too look half dead.

All the funerals i have been too have been for grandparents. The worst on was my Grandma who died first. I loved her so much, and still miss her like hell. I was doing ok until the hearse pulled up, with her coffin inside. And then i started welling up and didnt stop till it was all over and i had a glass of gin in my hand.

Children are much more philosophical about life than we expect them to be. My uncle died recently and my grandchildren were very fond of him and called him and his wife grandma and grandpa. They must have overheard us saying that we didn't know how my aunt would cope without my uncle to look after her because they disappeared upstairs and came down clutching letters they had written to my aunt. One of the letters said Dear Grandma I was so sorry that Granpa died I loved him very much and I hope you soon get a new man to look after you.
We did take them to the funeral and although there were a few tears they dealt with it very well and we were glad that they had a chance to say their goodbyes their hugs and kisses were also a great comfort to my aunt.

I think it depends how adults around children treat the subject. I also think children have just as much right as adults to say good bye to their loved ones in what ever way suits them.