My question is are we (on this board) a fair representation of society?

We're not homophobic.
We're not racist.
We're not misogynousth We're not neighbours from hell
and we aren't violent.

We all know this ain't what life is like. There are some people out there who are all of the above, but not on here it would seem.

Do you think everyone is as liberal and broadminded as they appear to be or do you think that secretly we're not all as politically correct as we seem to be. That we would never express any opinion that would be seen to go against the general consensus of opinion? ...and I'm not just talking about "I don't like soaps and everyone who does is silly" kind of difference of opinion.

Is Survivor On Line a cyber Utopia?

Do you see what I'm getting at .... or should I just stick to one liners in coffee lounge!

I think I see what you're getting at Dol.

Is it a cyber utopia? Yes it probably is in as much as these views are seldom expressed and hence you don't often see anything that would be truly offensive to another individual here. Which isn't the case for most message boards where people with extreme or sometimes just differing views will often test the water before getting unceremoniously tossed out.

Maybe it's because most of us are of a like mind and those that aren't get bored or frustrated and move on. But that doesn't make a lot of sense unless having a common interest in a TV show has an underlying significance even the psychologists know nothing about!

It may have something to do with respect and friendship between posters. Most of us rub along pretty well and have got to know one another over the years so wouldn't want to shock or upset anyone by suddenly stating that their favourite hobby was seal clubbing.

Alternatively people might be worried about being shot down in flames for having an opinion which wasn't the norm amongst the most vocal posters on the board.

Personally I think we're all big pink fluffy bunnies and I love you all. :wub: (Where's the vomit smilie when you need it) :)

Here it is Nox http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/ilovesurvivor/smilies/sick.gif

Good point. Yes I would agree with you.

What I like about forums is that its there when YOU want it, it never pops round un announced interrupting you, if a topic dosn't interest you, you can just ignore it. When you want to make a point/comment you are never put on the spot...you have time to compose and think of a reply.

Unlike 'real' life.

I think its bloomin marvelous what ever :wave:

Although as in real life, we are living in a time where many people are afraid to say anything that might be deemed 'incorrect (eg 'politically') which might be what dol was thinking of. I think that happens here too. There's also a tendency for a personal opinion on something to be countered with accusations of being judgmental (used as a term of disapproval) so people curb it to the detriment of colourful discussion. You can see the sort of effect that has when someone voices an opinion immediately followed by 'but having said that .....' so as not to look too , er ... judgmental.

I have to agree with SF here. Sometimes I think on here we are too nice. I can't for one minute think that the most liberal cross section of society post on this board. I for one am not liberal. But.... I will stand up and be honest and say that sometimes I will not post certain of my views unless I come across as being in one of those categories that Dol pointed out.

This is a good question Dol.

Like Nox, I'm inclined to think that this IS a cyber-utopia inasmuch as no-one here voices any racist/homophobic/violent etc. opinions, but I think its a valid point that to some extent everyone has a certain amount of politically incorrect opinions within them. If we didn't no-one would moan about the pointlessness of political correctness. However, people here refrain from uttering their more contraversial or un-PC opinions online for fear of being shot down in flames or altering the status quo. We have become a community here and we want to be accepted within that community, and to do that, we need to ensure that we don't say anything that is likely to offend a large portion of the group or brand us as being a particularly nasty type. In other words, we care too much what other people here think to be truly honest.

I'm inclined to think that if none of us knew each other and were posting here as total strangers, the atmosphere on the MB would be different. It may not be as comfortable or nice, but I'm pretty sure it would be honest. E.g. if I privately thought that a particular poster here was an ignorant ****, I doubt I'd actually say it in so many words for fear of being really offensive. But I'd probably say it exactly like that on an MB where I knew no-one, and didn't give a t0ss what they thought of me.

It raises the question, are we really being ourselves? If we are holding back from expressing our true feelings and views is that good or bad? By not posting what we really feel due to fear of being judged, doesn't that show lack of integrity?

In my counselling course we are taught unconditional positive regard, which is to be non-judgemental no matter what the client throws at us. It is one of the core conditions of counselling and it is something we are expected as counsellors to make part of our being. If the client does fear that they will be judged, then as a counsellor we are not doing our job to make them feel safe in that relationship. What I am getting at, is we need to ask ourselves do we feel 'safe' in our relationships on this board. I'll be honest and say that I don't, and that I might be judged harshly if I were to post certain things.

I
Personally I think we're all big pink fluffy bunnies and I love you all. :wub: (Where's the vomit smilie when you need it) :)

What a cheery response, Are you in love Nox???

It raises the question, are we really being ourselves? If we are holding back from expressing our true feelings and views is that good or bad? By not posting what we really feel due to fear of being judged, doesn't that show lack of integrity?


I dunno if it shows a lack of integrity exactly, but I think it shows that we have started to act online as we would in real life. We don't utter our more contraversial opinions here for fear of making a bad impression. I don't see that as dishonest, or a lack of integrity - its just the way that all societies operate. But I do think the MB is sometimes less for it. I kinda liked the good old days (3 years ago) when everyone said whatever they thought without really caring what anyone else thought of them for it. It provided a sort of freedom that I couldn't get anywhere else.

What I am getting at, is we need to ask ourselves do we feel 'safe' in our relationships on this board. I'll be honest and say that I don't, and that I might be judged harshly if I were to post certain things.

It depends what you mean by our "relationships" on this board. There are people I get on well with here, but I don't and never have expected people to agree with my opinions because they like me. Similarly, I'd be peed off if I thought people disagreed with me because they didn't like me. But I agree with you Tigger that sometimes I have either refrained from uttering an opinion, or watered it down somewhat because I know that I would be judged and challenged for it by some people on here and either I don't want the judgement or haven't got the time for the challenge. Likewise, there are threads that I have never started for the same reason. But I see that as my failing. This MB is not a counselling arena - people will judge me on the basis of the things I say! And if I refrain from uttering an opinion because I'm afraid of that judgement, then that is my own cowardice. Conversely though, there have been other times when I've simply thought "f.cuk it" and said it anyway, but more often than not the thread or comment has simply been met with a wall of silence because other people are afraid of judgement. So now I don't bother much. I have no desire to be the only person on this MB to show my **** to the world.

Of course, some people here don't actaully want a heavy discussion all the time, and may be genuinely more lovely that I am at my core.

Karen, I never meant to compare this board to a counselling arena. It would be impossible for it to be that way. I was just making a point as regards as to what environment it takes for a person to feel safe.

There are a few people on this board who I guess I have closer relationships with and I feel I can be absolutely honest with. But I do find it energy consuming to have to be careful about what I'm saying so I don't get pulled apart.

I would agree with most of what has been said. There have been times when I haven't replied to threads to say exactly what I feel for fear of being *lynched* (for the want of better word). I think because we have got to *know* each other, some of us have met and formed friendships, it will never be the same as what it was when it first started. That said though, friendships change even in real life. I remember when I first moved to Edinburgh and how great my weekends were, there were about 10 of us used to go, get plastered and go to whereever for a party to end the night. We had gret fun, but we were all single, and lived care-free lives. Now we are all married and have children, we don't do that anymore........1. I don't think our partners would like it very much!!! I can look back on those times knowing that I did enjoy myself but I do have to move on and I can still have fun, but not in the same heady way of when I was in my early twenties.

I think we have been through a lot on this board, we have had our ups & downs, our fall-outs but we do seem to have held it all together. Even now as I write this, there are things that I am holding back from saying for fear of reprisal and rocking the boat.

However, I do keep coming back because, well I would miss you guys if SO was suddenly taken away from me, I think we all have people we get on with, people we don't, people we like, people we don't like on the board, but we do have that in real-life too. I do think we have a good mix of people on here and I do enjoy being part of it.

I have to say though, I can't help thinking that this thread was started as an ulteriar (sp?) motive or am I just being paranoid? :ninja: :ninja: And Dol, sorry if it was not, it is not a dig at you personally.

I'm curious as to who these "lynchers" might be?

I've seen some lynchings in my time, but never on this board.

Karen, I never meant to compare this board to a counselling arena. It would be impossible for it to be that way. I was just making a point as regards as to what environment it takes for a person to feel safe.

No, I knew you weren't comparing this MB to a counselling session. And I get your point about creating an environment for people to feel safe to speak their mind. But what I was getting at is that, if people need to feel "safe" before they speak their mind, they never will!

The thing about voicing contraversial opinions is that people will judge you for them, and people will challenge you about them. That is what controversy is all about. And as long as people are afraid of that then they will continue to be less true to themselves.

There are a few people on this board who I guess I have closer relationships with and I feel I can be absolutely honest with. But I do find it energy consuming to have to be careful about what I'm saying so I don't get pulled apart.

I know what you mean here, but I don't see that there is an answer to it. If people didn't challenge and question contraversial issues when they disagreed, then they wouldn't be being true to themselves either! But you're right, it is time consuming because to enter into such a discussion and we don't always have that time.

But I really think that, provided people can give a reason why they have a contraversial opinion and discussion is handled in an adult way (e.g. without personal insult), then people should have no need to fear voicing their thoughts. I can think of a couple of threads off the top of my head on where one person has argued a contraversial point against the opposing majority, and because they've done do in an adult way, they have come out the other side with their reputations intact. Enhanced even!

I have to say though, I can't help thinking that this thread was started as an ulteriar (sp?) motive

Out of interest, what do you think the ulterior motive might have been? Go on, say it, you won't be lynched!

I wouldn't really describe SO as a cyber Utopia as such.

I would have thought that in a truly utopian community people would be able to express whatever opinions they had without fear of reprisal or upsetting anyone’s feelings.

At the end of the day, we all have the right to feel what we feel, whether that puts in the majority, or a minority of one.

A person that stands out against the crowd for what they believe certainly gets my respect and I suspect most other people’s as well.

I don’t think everyone here is quite as they appear and I suppose that the principal reason for that is that an MB gives you time to consider a response, or even turn the PC off and walk away, which you cant really do in real life.

Also, some people are happy to come here and tell all about themselves and others (like me) treat the internet as something separate to the rest of their lives.

I guess that the average age here being a little more, erm, mature, means that perhaps we are a more considerate community than other online groups.


I do have to say though, that I'm continually amazed by the number of posts made in this and other threads about "lynchings" and fear of not being able to put ones feeling into words sufficiently well to prevent people jumping down their throats.

If I had one criticism of this board, and I doubt Haydon will thank me for saying it, it's that everyone is too nice all the time.

I'm not suggesting we need all out war all the time and I know we've got close to that in the past, but I do feel that because of that, everyone is perhaps a little bit too sensitive of other peoples feelings and hence avoid saying anything contentious at all.

In my opinion, that's why this section isn't very lively.

No one gets particularly passionate about anything, so you never rush to sign click back into this section to find out what's been said.

Friction can be good as well as bad. In fact, it’s usually good.

I honestly cannot remember the last time we had a good flaming on here, where people really got what was on their minds out in the open. (Probably around the time of the last round of expulsions)

What we get now are semi-obscure comments, mischievous threads started and newbies under instant suspicion all designed to say something without actually saying it. (Not this thread btw Dol)

I think it’s a tremendous shame that people don’t feel that they are able to be honest with other people here and have to be so careful about what they say. If you inadvertently upset someone, it’s relatively easily put right with a PM.

No one is here to be your judge and jury; we’re just a bunch of people who hang out together from time to time.

In real life we share our emotions with the people we spend time with.

Let's see some emotion guys, what's the worst that can happen? :devil:

Y'know what Groucho, sometimes you show lot of wisdom. For an Essex Boy. :laugh:

Couldn't agree more. :)

I reluctantly have to agree with Groucho also. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Groucho, that was said brilliantly.
Maybe we should have a debating December.

In real life we share our emotions with the people we spend time with.


I agree with almost everything Groucho has said although I am not sure about the above comment. I don't share my emotions in real life with everyone I spend time with. I chose what I share and with whom. On here your emotions are shared with everyone, you can't be so chosey as you would be in real life. So for that very fact I only share what I am happy for any tom dick and harry to read.

Utopia is a fantasy state. Human emotions make it so.
Opinions must be guarded and moderated by self.
When we get it wrong and rant on like I can especially over smoking.... or when we overexpose ourselves then if the fall out is hard to handle look in the mirror first.
I find it very difficult to do polite greetings to people I do not know.
There would be no birthday cards in my cyber utopia

I agree with almost everything Groucho has said although I am not sure about the above comment. I don't share my emotions in real life with everyone I spend time with. I chose what I share and with whom. On here your emotions are shared with everyone, you can't be so chosey as you would be in real life. So for that very fact I only share what I am happy for any tom dick and harry to read.

That's a fair point ILS. I admit, I am not particularly open about my emotions either, not because I worry that any Tom, Dick or Harry might read about them (I'm usually prepared to stand by the things I say), but more because I am not an overtly emotional person.

But its a bit beside the point really, because the subject is more about expressing opinions, rather than emotions.

That's a fair point ILS. I admit, I am not particularly open about my emotions either, not because I worry that any Tom, Dick or Harry might read about them (I'm usually prepared to stand by the things I say), but more because I am not an overtly emotional person.

But its a bit beside the point really, because the subject is more about expressing opinions, rather than emotions.

I tend to be the same when it comes to expressing opinions though, I am just a very private person.

Right, gloves off.

I've been members of other boards before I came here, where I felt much happier speaking my mind, and argument was almost encouraged, and certainly enjoyed, by the people who took part. Admittedly, people did fall out, but I cant really think of anyone leaving the board because of a row.

Tbh, it took me a long time to post here initially, as I felt it was too 'nice', and lacked a hook to keep me coming back; as Groucho said, there's no drama, no cliffhangers to make you tune in. In the end I did start posting here, and I'm very glad I did, but I do still feel that I'm not quite able to be myself here, as it'd feel like farting in church.

The community feeling on SO is amazing though, and everyone's made to feel very very welcome. I dont mean to criticise really, just to say that I;d be happier with a bit more controversy.

In fact, Ive decided to try to be a bit more outspoken and enter into debate more, so be warned. :D

Well you sad lot :devil: I agree, you make my life easy! :)

I've never really been particularly heavy handed when it comes to moderating the boards. Other than bad language, everyone is pretty much free to say whatever they want. You won't find many closed threads on SO.
There is no doubt that controversial posts make people reply.

So how has it got to be such a 'nice' place? Well, I think it's down to the fact that a lot of people have actually met in real life. SO is actually quite a small forum. Each day about 50 members visit, the rest are all visitors. Maybe that has something to do with why it's almost too nice and friendly sometimes. Although for me, I like it friendly. Means I don't worry so much about libel, slander and god knows what else.

Out of interest, what do you think the ulterior motive might have been? Go on, say it, you won't be lynched!

Is that a promise SF? ;) It wasn't meant as a dig to anyone, what I meant was in the past there have been threads started with a specfic goal in mind. And I guess the paranoid animal in me, just had to have a say.

I think we probably are a nice bunch of people in real-life and on board. If I was really honest the friends that I have in real-life are not racist, homophobic, violent, neighbours from hell (although my neighbour might say that about me!!! :ohmy: ) and sorry to be completely thick & dumb but what the h*ck is misogynousth. Am I now showing my uneducated side? :ninja:

For the first time in my SO life - and maybe my life in general, I am feeling a little disallusioned.

I suppose what I mean is that in my long life, I have surrounded myself with 'niceness' and have not had to deal with pants things. This last year [and beyond] has been hard at home - with Mr F's situation etc. And I know that I have always suffered from 'being walked over'.

I made a decision a while back that I was not going to be walked upon and I was going to be more assertive. And since I started being more assertive I have found myself more bothered by things that in the past did not concern me one iota.

And maybe that has seeped over onto SO?? I don't know - I find myself being less patient, more aggressive, and easily roused. Yet I still find myself unwilling to be absolutely honest - which I have always prided myself on. So is this a Utopia?? I don't know - it is certainly a super place to come for support, friendship, advice and a laugh. But as for being absolutely honest - then no I am not being at the moment. But I suspect this is a phase in my life that I just have to deal with - it so not me being bothered by stuff I am being bothered by on here - I am generally live and let live.

So I suppose I am saying nothing has changed here - just me. If I appear to be in a bad mood - then I probably am. If I appear to be horrible then I probably am. And one day I will get better.:sad:

I maybe the only one here but I like 'nice'. I see nothing wrong with being nice, and I would much rather be nice than nasty. That's not to say I don't enjoy the controversial threads but they can still be interesting with out personal attacks.

I had no "ulterior motive" to starting this thread at all. It's just at work I deal a lot with bad neighbours, unsociable people, those who are racist, argumentative etc and I thought it might provoke an interesting discussion. It did!

I also think there is nothing wrong with "nice", but it can be wearing when it stops people from being themselves. ...once again I am thinking of a work situation and nothing to do with the board.

Is that a promise SF? ;) It wasn't meant as a dig to anyone, what I meant was in the past there have been threads started with a specfic goal in mind. And I guess the paranoid animal in me, just had to have a say.



No, not a dig but why did you think this particular thread was started with an ulterior motive, and what did you think the motive was?

Groucho quote: Also, some people are happy to come here and tell all about themselves and others (like me) treat the internet as something separate to the rest of their lives.

This comment stopped me in my tracks and made me think about what I actually do...and I'm not sure. I think I do both. I am certainly honest in my replies here, anything I feel uncomfortable about I dont respond to. But do I treat it separately to the rest of my life???? Yes I think I do, I would never say at work...Groucho said that...or ils decorated the bar brilliantly for floopy's birthday. And the Mascarade ball...I actually started to tell someone about (I was enjoying it so much) but the expression on their faces didn't encourage me to expand. So now I don't really tell anyone about here, so I suppose it is my place, seperate to the rest of my life.

As in my real life, I avoid any form of confrontation, I don't like it...so I would steer clear of any heated debates..but I would enjoy reading them!!

Utopia - an imaginary place or state of things where everything is perfect.


May not be exactly true but I like it.

No, not a dig but why did you think this particular thread was started with an ulterior motive, and what did you think the motive was?

To be honest, I don't know.....that's what I meant by being paranoid, I guess. However as it stands I got it completely wrong and it was only a brief thought that run through my mind, I wasn't 100% thinking that it did have an ulterior motive, which Dol has pointed out it hadn't and I apologise to her for having that brief moment of paranoia. :ninja:

oh no, dont back down, i was looking forward to a fight :D

i was looking forward to a fight :D

You're in the wrong place then.

I disagree

To be honest, I don't know.....that's what I meant by being paranoid, I guess. However as it stands I got it completely wrong

But - seriously - Isn't that exactly what Dol was saying - that people are unwilling to say what they think?

I thought that, but I didnt want to say.

*sorry*

So what is the worst that could happen? And if you feel something, even if it is a little paranoid, then you feel it, it matters and you should voice it, IMO.

Not just on survivor online but in many situations I do not say what i think. I have a wonderful neighbour who i see out dogwalking. She hates queers jews african Arabs she tells ME about the 3 queer couples in the next village and to be careful....she goes on about asylum seekers, BUT BIG BUT
ANYONE
I MEAN ANYONE
who needed her help would get it. If a train full of gay arab asylum seekers landed inour village she would be first out with the tea and the first to give her allotment veg.
What she speaks is unbelievable but her children have moderated her as they are wonderful accepting beings BECAUSE mums example was overwhelming kindness to all.
So we take coffee in my kitchen
and I like her
She is real.
I would never tell her her views are wrong.
I have had her right next door type neighbour ask me why i have anything to do with her.....so I said I like her she has no veneer and her actions speak louder than her (small life and world) words.
I ignore a lot on here
Flippy be angry the 40's are angry thats why life begins Im 50 soon and I am so mellow at the moment my kids are scared!

And if you feel something, even if it is a little paranoid, then you feel it, it matters and you should voice it, IMO.

Does that apply to all circumstances Floopy? I don't suppose it does, and I expect most individuals would draw the line somewhere.

One of the things that makes mankind such a social animal is that he is able to hold back his emotions if he thinks that it will damage the group and ultimately himself. To take an extreme example, the yobs Bella was talking about in the previous thread probably had no hesitation in voicing their opinions whoever it would upset or anger. IMO, when it's taken to extreme levels voicing your opinion can do more harm than good.

I think the debates in this forum are worth reading because people hold different opinions without spilling over into abuse or launching personal vendettas. I think we have a lot to be proud of.

Someone mentionied that we tend to be of a... uhh certain age, and that's probably got a lot to do with it. Even the 'youngsters' here have a maturity beyond their years and possibly it takes us more to get worked up than when we were young and all too eager to take the bait.

But - seriously - Isn't that exactly what Dol was saying - that people are unwilling to say what they think?

Yes, sf I'd agree completely.

As a prime example, you very rarely say what you actually think, yet are happy to take the role of prosecuting counsel in most debates, attempting to squeeze a little bit more out of the "witnesses" than what they may have posted.

Without giving too much away yourself, you offer people the opportunity to bury themselves with their own words.

I honestly think that you should lead the charge and set the example by actually saying whatever is on your mind!

You never know, you might enjoy it! :wink2:

I've taken Groucho off my ignore list so I can read his more thoughtful stuff. Thanks for the advice Groucho, and I'm sure you have a good point. One thing springs to mind though, that when I gave away something about myself being excited about the new DVD technology, it only took moments for you to jump in with a sarcastic comment.

With all this attention I'm quite flattered that you have a hard-on for me, but for a bit of variety you might try pointing it somewhere else.

Please accept my apologies sf, my intention was not to flatter you.


Also, apologies for the DVD recorder comment. You're right, it was unnecessary.

My previous experience of "speaking my mind" on this Board was several years ago and was so grossly unpleasant I have never repeated it. I was set upon by a group of individuals who I can only describe as bullies. They made as many unpleasant remarks about me as they could until I went away (which I eventually did, as I was bored comatose by the general "niceness" one had to adhere to in order to get along).

I still feel that's what would happen now - "speaking your mind" only seems OK if you happen to agree with the majority!!

I don't find that kind of attitude mature or intelligent and I don't consider bullying to be a debate. Therefore, I use this MB as a bit of a giggle to pass the time. It is somewhere to make inane comments, and is the computer equivalent of a nice bubble bath in something sweet smelling, dreaming of fluffy kittens.

It certainly ISN'T somewhere I would come for a serious debate.

Perhaps those genuinely interested in a "gloves off" discussion should form a breakaway group - so long as the contest is an intellectual one and not merely an excuse to indulge in a spot of cyber bullying.

Oh dear, I've just spoken my mind. What a cheek.

I think Ive always tried to speak my mind on here regardless if I thought I would get "attacked" or not. You are all great people but at the end of the day, I don't really care if no-one else agrees with my point of view on something so why shouldn't I speak my mind? Having said that, I rarely venture into this forum as I sometimes find it too....serious! :laugh:
I do think that some poeple are up others arses some of the time though.

I do think that some poeple are up others arses some of the time though.

Oh, go on then Peej, speak your mind and tell us who you think they are!!!! :devil: :devil: :devil:

What can i say?

It's a delicate balancing act sometimes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/secrets33/balance.jpg


I guess being 'sensible' overides most things.
I get web- photo's from people like this:(I know it's hard to believe.:ohmy: )
But i don't tell everyone, why should i?
Here is 'here' and you only get so much of me.
I kinda like it that way.:)
Edited after being told to do so by the cyber police - see it really is a utopia isn't it?
*Do i get a smacked bottom or is that too much to hope for?*

So do i get an answer?

You were quick enough to pm me!

What can i say?

It's a delicate balancing act sometimes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/secrets33/balance.jpg


I guess being 'sensible' overides most things.
I get web- photo's from people like this:(I know it's hard to believe.:ohmy: )
But i don't tell everyone, why should i?
Here is 'here' and you only get so much of me.
I kinda like it that way.:)
Edited after being told to do so by the cyber police - see it really is a utopia isn't it?
*Do i get a smacked bottom or is that too much to hope for?*Secrets, I'm sorry you are upset, you were asked to remove the link because it was inappropriate for this forum. Your post stated "I get web photo's like this....but I don't tell anyone" So why tell/nay show everyone?

So do i get an answer?

You were quick enough to pm me!
Secrets you know that's a moderators job. I could have edited your post for you but I did you the courtesy of allowing you to do so yourself. However, if you don't like the way I moderate I suggest you take it up with Haydon.

I was proving a point.
The photo was real - it's not the sort of thing i would post here.
Why would anyone be interested in it?
But the whole point of the thread was about people on here being honest wasn't it?

So we between us have proved the point that you cannot yes?

So we between us have proved the point that you cannot yes?
Not at all. This is a community and communities have to have rules. We have rules, one of them states:

KEEP YOUR POSTS CLEAN
There may be places where explicit, obscene or vulgar language, graphics or behavior is appropriate however Survivor Online is not one of them. Discussion forum posts or profiles that contain explicit, obscene or vulgar language will be removed. Similarly, discussion forum posts or profiles that solicit or offer explicit or X-rated GIFs, JPEGs or similar content files will be deleted without notice!

Take your time in answering - after all it is live isn't it.

Take your time in answering - after all it is live isn't it.
Since we are now well off topic I suggest we continue this via PM.

So this thread is total crap?

You cannot say or do anything unless it falls within the 'permissible' boundary's.
So HOW CAN ANYONE speak freely?
I rest my case on this issue.:wave:

You can say and post whatever you want, as long as it abides by Haydon's rules. You agreed to those rules when you become a member. I am of course willing to discuss this further in PM form, should you wish to do so.

I clicked on the link before it was removed and I agree with Voice that is was inappropiate (sp) for this forum.

I was proving a point.
The photo was real - it's not the sort of thing i would post here.
Why would anyone be interested in it?
But the whole point of the thread was about people on here being honest wasn't it?

So we between us have proved the point that you cannot yes?
I just don't get it. Expand please.

I don't have much beef with the people of Survivor Online. I know I irritate some people, but I'm sure I irritate people in Real Life (when I step outside of course. Outside, you say? Only on special occasions.)

If I disagree with somebody, I will probably say so. I even got a warning level at one point, which was rather ace, and made me feel like a delinquent of some sort. And I deserved it, and after some time in the Survivor Online Rehabilitation Centre, I emerged a better man. So sometimes you have to tread the line between what is a constructive point and what is just plain rude. Plain rudeness isn't really fun to read, so to have the gloves totally off is in my opinion a bad idea. So maybe we should just cut the fingers off the end of our gloves like dirty smokers do to make sure we aren't just falsely conveying a utopia.

I dislike French people sometimes. Who's with me?

cheerio!

I dislike French people sometimes. Who's with me?Not me for sure!

Maybe at this point I should dive in with the 'c**q**' word and get the moderators properly revved up into a tizzy!

End of the day, everyone (including me) posts with an agenda of sorts -lunatics in the asylum trying to reach to the sane? A utopia is unrealistic if not a deceit. (sadly)

Re the original q citing racism, homophobia, misogyny, violence, I have seen all of these expressed on SO, but ditto likewise in society. If anything the interest is in seeing how people justify these views, sometimes with a validity they would be unable to say IRL. The difference with the net is the words linger for the posters to see what they are -if they can.

I put a post in coffee lounge as I approached the topic as light hearted I was not into a debat more a reflect and it got moved to SO debating. It was my POST i put it where I wanted it to be, I imagined me in the pub in Edingburgh sort of chatting when I did it I rarely start a thread. I am very timid and unconfident in many ways. I could go all proffesional and go on about ego id and power and manipulation but really I felt where I put the post reflected me and who moved it reflected them I was not given a PM either to ask how I felt. I post less because I feel policed. I am a creative writer but parody and irony can be offencive and emotive and funny and it never ever quite sits on everyone. I am unsure about the ownership of any poetry or short stories placed... My real life writing is getting very exciting as i now have an agent so I geuss I can go with that. As copywright has become increasingly important to me I also no longer post work I may want to publish.
The homophobia sexism racism bother me very little they are part of an evolving society, What bothers me is not being able to say what i feel and I still feel moderators should not edit until a complaint AND should not move threads unless asked to. Mods say they are friends but you have awhole area we do not go and please recognise your POWER within this community. Complaining to a person and moving or wiping a post or thread without consent of the participant who does not own the words they place once placed is POWER and CONTROL.
I am still here now but a little recognition of the POWER is important.

[font=Arial][font=Verdana]Not me for sure!

Maybe at this point I should dive in with the 'c**q**' word and get the moderators properly revved up into a tizzy!



Any reason why you want the mods revved up into a tizzy, Lucy? :confused:

I wish LUCY was back on telly OUr MB LUcy keeps me chortling almost as much but she lacks some elegance if her avatar is anything to go by.

Oh, go on then Peej, speak your mind and tell us who you think they are!!!! :devil: :devil: :devil:

It's not so much certain people, but it's just certain things that have already been brought up here like people going out of their way just to agree with something, even if they don't. And if they don't they won't just come right out and say it, as if they don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

NB - Im not reffering to a particular person or event here so don't start surmising!!

So this thread is total crap?

You cannot say or do anything unless it falls within the 'permissible' boundary's.
So HOW CAN ANYONE speak freely?
I rest my case on this issue.:wave:

You're saying that nobody can really speak their mind, because that would mean running up against the cyber police, as you did with whatever this picture was you posted.

At first I thought you might have a good point, but after a moment's thought I realised that no - of course people can say what they like without breaking MB rules - it's just a question of how you do it.

Even all those things that Dol mentioned - racism, homophobia - all that stuff - I think you can express those views in a measured way which would not invoke the wrath of Haydon.

By the way, I have to say I didn't like the way you had a go at VoR after she took your picture out - it had all the characteristics of deliberately starting a fire then throwing bricks at the fire brigade when they arrive.

I really think how you speak your mind is immaterial. I find subtle cuts and innuendo the worst.. Clever swipes put in a disguise of acceptability is even worse as its trying to reframe what is in essence still a dig or swipe or whatever.
But that is also society.
I think the difference is I know the rules of society. I felt i had done something wrong when my post was moved to an arena different to the one I had chosen, I could see the logic but muy logic was the room |I placed it in. I felt humiliated too.
I can see wherre secrets is coming from and he is making his point in HIS way and I for one like his approach. It doesnt try to be clever just up front and honest.
Intellectual insenitivity is a topic that springs to mind and secrets is one of the most intelligent people on here he just hasn't been trained out of his honesty and integrity by a intellectualising instincts system and polite proffesional dogma.

You will be pleased to know I am Off to stowe now for along walk.....well 2 miles it is, my carriage awaits me. Ciao

I really think how you speak your mind is immaterial.

I am not so sure - I think the way you do it can have all sorts of different effects, depending on your approach.

For instance - I suppose there is a tactful and unhurtful way of telling a work colleague that they have BO, but it would take a bit of working out how best to do it without upsetting or alienating them.

The same way, I think that on a MB, you can say things one way, which might end up with a flaming row if you're not careful (or if that's what you're after) or another way, which might end with a reasonable exchange which (I think) is what most people prefer.

Any reason why you want the mods revved up into a tizzy, Lucy? Er, did I say I did?

I wish LUCY was back on telly OUr MB LUcy keeps me chortling almost as much but she lacks some elegance if her avatar is anything to go by.HEY! What is inelegant about my avater???

On a serious note I can see what sheoque means & she makes a good point as always. And I hope you get to have a good trudge around the gardens at Stowe sheoque -they are magnificent and never more so than in autumn.

By the way, I have to say I didn't like the way you had a go at VoR after she took your picture out - it had all the characteristics of deliberately starting a fire then throwing bricks at the fire brigade when they arrive.I agree SF....

Voice did not edit his post, she requested that he removed the link himself after a complaint from me. I clicked on the link and I found the picture he had posted was offensive and totally unappropriate for a family forum...

the picture he had posted was offensive and totally unappropriate for a family forum...

Fair enough, but it seems he was doing it to make a point - that you can't post what you like on a MB like this without upsetting someone.

By the way - I guess it was posted for everyone to see, not just the mods - so, what was the subject of the picture? Or is that irrelevant? I'm asking because it might throw some better light on the original post.

Well it was just a link that was posted but it was for everyone to click on not just the mods. IMO the picture would have been better posted on a porn site.

IMO the picture would have been better posted on a porn site.

Oooh I wish I'd seen it now!! :(

Getting this emotive thread back on topic....

I think that for some, SO could be a cyber utopia, but for others not. It all depends what you want/need from your cyber experience!
In summary of this thread....
One mans meat is another mans poison

I would almost certainly tend to be classified as someone who wants things to be "nice". But "nice" need not imply "bland". The "Christian View of Homosexuality" thread on the previous site was a good example I think of a debate where most contributors expressed their views honestly without being too overwhelmed by dissenting views. Somehow that thread managed to remain civil, despite how fundamentally emotive the issues were.

Maybe some of us are racist, homophobic, or otherwise bigotted - but this is a written medium. We all have time to think before we post. So basically there is no excuse for expressing oneself in an overtly offensive manner, is there?

I only wish that real life had "flood control". Maybe then we'd all think before we spoke.

In summary of this thread....
One mans meat is another mans poisonI'd agree totally with this and also with Lucy's point about utopia being (sadly) unrealistic. For every 'let's-have-the-gloves-off-and-no-holds-barred' type of person there's a 'please-don't-shout-at-me-I-don't-like-confrontation' type (*probably hiding behind them!) and their individual utopias would of course be quite different.

You can't please all of the people all of the time, and of course mistakes are made, we all do it, it's part of that being 'real' and human that others have mentioned as being important in this thread. All one can do is apologise when offence is caused and learn from it so as not to repeat the offence in future. I have had cause to learn from my own errors more than once and I'm mindful to keep doing so.

SO isn't a utopia, but then nor is the society which we presumably reflect. I guess all that we can hope for in both is that we learn as we live and aim to improve.

*This is me.

Secrets, that picture was just disgusting and was in no way suitable to be posted on here :sick:

When I started this thread I didn't expect so much navel gazing and introspection and old matters to be raked up again. Once one posts a thread on the board they have little or no control over where it goes.

I for one think most neighbourhoods would be a lot better and nearing a kind of Utopia if everyone DID think a little more before they spoke, like the people on this board do before they post, generally. Consideration of others feelings goes a long way. I think this board has itself come a long way from at one point suffering a lack of consideration of people's feelings.

As for the picture I didn't see it, don't want to see it, but I fail to see what valid point posting it could possibly make in the context of this thread.

When I started this thread I didn't expect so much navel gazing and introspection and old matters to be raked up again.

But I thought the whole point of this thread was that people weren't saying what they wanted to say for fear of being criticised? I find it a bit odd that you would then express apparent disappointment when they DO say how they feel?! :huh:

Well it's nice to see it reaffirmed that S-O is not a cyber utopia :D Heaven forbid that things get too anodyne here.

For those that feel constrained about speaking their minds here there is always the option of joining other messageboards under false names to bitch about whatever they like, thus hopefully releasing the tension a little.

Alternatively perhaps the powers that be might consider inviting back previously banned members to "liven things up" here.

Alternatively perhaps the powers that be might consider inviting back previously banned members to "liven things up" here.Aren't they here under different usernames already?

Aren't they here under different usernames already?

LOL are they??? They're being unusually shy then...

I don't think I'd much fancy bitching on other MB's. It all seems a bit childish to me. I'd rather tough it out here!! :laugh:

Still, at the end of the day, I am quite happy to have "fluffy kitten" Utopia when I'm at work as I get enough grief in my job as it is - so for today, fluffy kittens are fine.

I will however try to be more upfront in emotive threads even if it DOES offend the majority...perhaps. :huh:

If S Online is not a utopia how would you define it. Cyber Club springs to mind as in agreeing to participate you have to go through steps of membership to participate.

I think SO is just like the office - some people I really get on with, some people I'm indifferent to, and others I find irritating. Same with the topics of discussion really....except of course no one FORCES me to come on here and it's not as boring!! :laugh:

I think SO is just like the office - some people I really get on with, some people I'm indifferent to, and others I find irritating. Same with the topics of discussion really....except of course no one FORCES me to come on here and it's not as boring!! :laugh:Ceri, you have said exactly what I have been thinking. Thanks for saving me the trouble of typing it ! lol ......

Ceri, you have said exactly what I have been thinking. Thanks for saving me the trouble of typing it ! lol ......

Yes, I'm a genius I know....:laugh:

I have never worked in an office maybe thats why I am so foggy about the social structure of the MB

I think SO is just like the office - some people I really get on with, some people I'm indifferent to, and others I find irritating. Same with the topics of discussion really....except of course no one FORCES me to come on here and it's not as boring!! :laugh:Funnily enough I do think you have got it - by jove she's got it!! Yes - now that you say this there are so many comparisons with an office:

Office = SOnline

You all work together = we all post here
We all work towards a common goal = we all like reality programmes
There are some we really like = same
There are others we really don't = same
There is the Boss/CEO/Brig. Gen/MD = we have Haydon
Dare I say?

There are the supervisors/sgt's/managers = we have the Mods
You have an team building excercises/conferences = we have meets
You have walk outs/strikes/pea stalks = we have fall outs
Office romances = SO romances
Office flirts = SO flirts
And so on and so forth.

I've never woked in an office either so I can't identify with that definition, although I can see the similarities now they have been pointed out. I'd define SO as a community, that is, a body of people who have something in common. We are all different characters and we have differing personalities, opinions, styles of writing, likes and dislikes but we all form a whole for the purposes of posting here.

There is the Boss/CEO/Brig. Gen/MD = we have Haydon


Does that mean Haydon is David Brent? :ohmy:

As has been pointed out, the big difference between here and real life is no one forces you to listen to them, and you can ignore anything you don't like or aren't interested in.

Another benefit that everyone has overlooked is text doesn't stink of garlic or last night's curry. Also you can go and put the kettle on in the middle of reading someone's ramble without causing offence.

I try to be 95% myself on here, and hopefully those who have met me know that im no different in real life.

BUT, as in real life i dont always say what im thinking. Im quite weak when it comes to speaking my mind, and have never had particularly strong viewpoints. Im also easily swayed with my thinking, so i enjoy reading what others write and then forming my own opinion. When it comes to debate i particularly enjoy reading Lucy and KarenH's posts as they are often very thought provoking and really make me reassess my own view point and question myself, which is a good thing.

The odd occasion when i have been outspoken, i have then received nasty PM's telling me where to go ... which kinda stops you doing it again.

I like this message board, i always have, but there is small part of me that is looking forward to getting away from it for a few months soon. I think that, once you let other people upset / effect you, its time for a break to calm down and be yourself again.

The odd occasion when i have been outspoken, i have then received nasty PM's telling me where to go ... which kinda stops you doing it again.

That is dreadful and is precisely the sort of behaviour that makes me fed up. It is just bullying and it is totally unnecessary!!

That is dreadful and is precisely the sort of behaviour that makes me fed up. It is just bullying and it is totally unnecessary!!

For the record, it was me and I thought it was necessary! However it was a PM exchange and not for the MB.

I think a dig by PM deemed necessary by the sender is cowardly especially if it will evoke a negative response from the recipient its like saying what you feel when you know you shouldn't in public.but using a PM, PM's are abit like saying your thoughts outloud and should be used prudently.

I feel that when you receive a hurtful PM it is worse than anything said publically. I know it hurt me. I was gobsmacked - and my 'exchange' showed how flumoxed i was. I think i said about 8 words !!!

The only thing it did was make me realise that im not always strong enough for this place, and it also makes me nervous about future 'meets'.

Therefore i wont be attending any more in the future.

And SF, i wasnt naming names, but you decided to admit it was you - just dont blame me for this. I was explaining how people can get scared to post their own thoughts ... and this is one of my reasons.

I think a dig by PM deemed necessary by the sender is cowardly especially if it will evoke a negative response from the recipient its like saying what you feel when you know you shouldn't in public.but using a PM, PM's are abit like saying your thoughts outloud and should be used prudently.

No, surely PMs are intended for correspondence that you want to keep off the board.

No, surely PMs are intended for correspondence that you want to keep off the board.
I think that is what they are intended for SF, but in the past I have recieved pm's purely for the reason that Sheoque has described....

Let he/she who is without PM & MB sin cast the first stone......

Let he/she who is without PM & MB sin cast the first stone......Lol yes, I agree. We have all had them and most of us have sent an ill advised PM or posted something that upset/irritated someone else at some point, we have all been here too long not to have any history after all.

Actually I've never received an offensive PM and nor have I ever sent one. All my PM's are just to say "hi" to someone who hasn't been around for a while, or to express concern if they've seemed down or something - I would be horrified if someone sent me a PM purely to have a go at me for something I'd put on the MB - I would be really, really upset!! :(

- I would be horrified if someone sent me a PM purely to have a go at me for something I'd put on the MB - I would be really, really upset!! :(

Of course the upside would be that you could do a poor-little-me post about it on the MB and get lots of sympathy!

Of course the upside would be that you could do a poor-little-me post about it on the MB and get lots of sympathy!

I dont need anyones sympathy thanks, i was stating why its hard to speak your mind sometimes.

I wasn't having a pop at you SF, you're one of my favourite posters and I've never had reason to fall out with you!!

I was just saying that generally, if anyone on here sent me a PM having a go at me, it would remind me of being bullied at school, and I know I would be really upset.

I FIND THIS INCREDULOUS. Whoops caps lock on. Bonsai is not one of the great long posting debaters but she does have a lot of emapthy and is a real team player with a heart of Gold, unlike me. I also rarely get poor you PM's and don't send them. I am the one of the edge invisibly nodding my head in agreement as i did with tiggers sons oral disaster, I am only visible via the views button. I really admire how Bonnie can show she cares I feel so clutzy and back off. Pat on the back to bonnie.

Whoops Sheoque has just boiled a pan dry and burnt half of tea!!!!

Young People will be paleased I bulk freeze cooked brown rice and cook it up quick I only use a little water (tt-oo little this time) but thats all burnt
SO its OVEN CHIPS and its NOT Friday
I will have some expalining to do last time I cahnged the oven chip routine it caused great upset as this is not a domestic utopia.

xxxxxxxxxxxx

I'm not entirely to blame then.

No-one is entirely to blame in these things. There is usually always a certain level of blame that can be attached to parties on both sides of an argument, with each side feeling "wronged" for some reason or another.

Its nearly always easier to be objective and fair when you are not involved.

No-one is entirely to blame in these things. There is usually always a certain level of blame that can be attached to parties on both sides of an argument, with each side feeling "wronged" for some reason or another.

Its nearly always easier to be objective and fair when you are not involved.

In hindsight I took my last post out.

I didn't mean it like that though - I meant that you can't blame someone else for being weak when it comes to speaking your mind, or for not having a viewpoint.