I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up yet....tell me if it has

"Travellers" Is the nice way of describing these people......sometimes referred to gypsies
They use the UK and European Laws to prevent anyone from evicting them....and then when they do leave the land it costs hundreds of thousands of pounds of the taxpayers money to clear the areas up

Anyone else have ideas?

The news was on the radio when I was waking up the other day, and there was something about the conservatives, travellers and the human rights act.

What was that all about - Are they proposing to make it harder for the travellers to flaunt their 'rights' should they get into power?

The news was on the radio when I was waking up the other day, and there was something about the conservatives, travellers and the human rights act.

What was that all about - Are they proposing to make it harder for the travellers to flaunt their 'rights' should they get into power?

Thats basically th gist of it Nox, it appears that some "travellers" are using the Human Rights Act to disregard certain Laws........so Michael Howard is proposing changes to prevent this.

As most of you know, Im all for live and let live, but within the Law please! I dont see why travellers (or anyone else for that matter) should be exempt, I mean, could you imagine the uproar if I decided to go and live as I pleased on Dartmoor??!!!???

I'm not sure if anyone has brought this up yet....tell me if it has

"Travellers" Is the nice way of describing these people......sometimes referred to gypsies


Oddly enough I think this is the first on 'travellers'. And I am not sure whether the term travellers is deemed as the nice way of describing them. Gypsies and Romanies are what the true 'travellers' are called, and the hangers on are the 'travellers'.

And, I have some interest in the terminology and history, I suspect that those that are true 'gypsies and/or romanies' will not mind one bit being called exactly that and in fact insist upon it.

True Gypsies and/or Romanies [because I don't know the difference] are a 'tribe' of wandering people - who have existed, on the whole peaceably, for centuries. They have fought for their country, have partaken in village life, been part of communities longer than any of us care to imagine.

I really don't understand, because I am not one, I have no pyhsical connections with them, but from what I understand - they are a breed apart from what the majority of us know and understand about living in one place. These are traditions/lifestyles/manners handed down through generation - and I admire and have great empathy with them as a whole.

The 'old fashioned' gypsy caravan and occupants living in the local farmers field, picking apples from the orchard, helping the farmers out during potato or lambing season - buidling small fires to cook their food on and after a few months moving on - are things of storybooks and romantic novels. But what I see in that is that they lived a 'similar' life - just outdoors to the people of that age.

The modern gypsy does likewise - they use trucks and 4 wheel drives to move between camps. They don't harvest or help on farms - they get jobs in factories or casual labour, their caravans aren't the art form they used to be - their 'homes' are in keeping with 'modern' lifestyles.

Gypsies - used to wear all their worldly wealth around their necks and fingers - and to some extent they still do - but this wealth on necks and fingers has become a fashion item. As has [had] the 'gypsy' look in the haute couture world.

So do we use these proud people for role models or part of their culture for role models and chuck the bits away that we don't like?? Or do we accept them as a proud race and try to do something to help them.

I really don't know what the answer is? Because in my understanding the gypsies of 'old' would roam, in family units, over the country unhindered, they would meet up in pre-destined places over the period of the year and life amongst locals and gypsies would be harmonious, dare I say symbiotic?

This seems to have changed and more and more 'gypsies' want the best of both worlds. They want to live in a 'van' and they want to be settled on a site! I wonder whether the majority are really 'true' gypsies?

If it were as simple as that - then surely the governement could find a number of places around the country that could be used for, and be wiling to be used for 'travellers sites'?

I think this is the main problem Flip - I have the same understanding of Gypsies and Romanys as you describe, a proud, hardworking, peaceful group of people......

but I dont think that it is this "type" of traveller that causes the problems, I think it is more my step brothers (disowned by me) type of traveller that is the major concern, the type that has no regard or respect for anyone or their property and thinks that the world and its wife owes him a living and a place to live, regardless of who or what he walks all over and the concequences it has, in the process of living his "free life"......its free alright - cos WE pay for it one way or another in taxes and rates!

I also have Hippie "traveller" friends, who basically travel around the UK and Europe and work their "passage" by fruit and vegetable picking, and they find that most places have land kitted out for them to "camp up" for the duration......

NO ONE is exempt from the Law, and it infuriates me that the Human Rights Act is being used and abused in this way!

Actually, the majority that are causing the problem are what were always called Irish Tinkers. They have come over to the UK and just grab what they can causing untold misery to locals. Near where I used to live a bunch of them took over a lay-by on one of the major roads, their ponies were staked to the verges, the dogs ran riot, and the rubbish was appauling. The nearby local town had a massive upturn in breakins and robberies, and soon it got that the local lads decided enough was enough, it was a mini war in the end.....but, the tinkers stayed, are still there I have been told. It's just wrecked what was a lovely area, and caused massive grief to the locals. Something has to be done, and soon!

We had problems at work a few years ago they camped in our works car park.
We have a two horse racing tracks nearby and they descend on the area at certain times of the year. When they were camped in the car park their children were riding in and out of the warehouses on their bikes weaving in between the forklifts, the drivers of these had to be really careful not to hit them. They used the side of the building as a toilet and left loads of rubbish behind them it cost our company a lot of money to get it all cleared up.

We all have to live by rules and planning laws why should they be exempt from this, they use fear tactics to terrorise people then claim persecution if anyone tries to fight back. It is time that your normal average hardworking taxpayer was treated with the same respect they dish out to all the little minorities cos without us shelling out all the time where would they all be.

travellers have made quite a few headlines in our local news recently. for basically wrecking a joint, leaving nappies and stuff lying around, being abusive to people (probably two sides to that one). i dont care if thats the way they want to live, but be considerate to the people that live in that community they have just wrecked! its disgusting leaving all that rubbish lying around and having then to have the taxpayer pay for clearing it up. thats just wrong, i have also heard stories of these travellers stealing dogs and other things, could just be a story though.

My interpretation of the various 'travelling' sets

- I use '....' because many are not travelling but now on static sites.

1) PIKEY SCUM.............That'll be the S**ts that go about terrorising neighbourhoods, dumping rubbish, stealing cars, burgaling homes, avoiding any form of authority (except the 'human rights' claims). These are either 'on-the-road' squatting in car parks and fields close to main roads leaving filth behind them or they have 'aquired' land and terrorised land owners and residents into a state of fear so that they can illegaly develop it into a static plot. They avoid taxes because the homes they live in are as such 'temporary' insofar as they are not fixed to the land they are on yet they have fenced gardens c/w ornaments. They avoid the law as when they are nicked they f*** off on to the road to avoid court appearances. Travellers my ar5e

2) TRAVELLERS..............Wannabe Hippies in converted buses and dormobiles setting up camp for the season in lay-bys or fields (generally with the land owners consent as they tend to know that it belongs to a friend of daddys). Occassionally set up camp with tents, tunnels, teepees and tree houses depending on which development they are protesting about. (Cruise missile base, By-pass, Research lab, Fox hunt, etc). Tax avoidance and non-dependance on society is key principle as "mummy & daddy have been paying far too much tax, why do I need to?" University taught them that the education system would be far better if children were taught life skills by thier parents (who's only job was bar work in thier gap year).

3) SEASONAL TRAVELLING WORKERS.........Was the old school Romany/Gypsie. Living as a structured group travelling through out the country plying for seasonal work such as fruit picking, hop collecting, wheat shearing, potato/turnip/etc harvesting. Lived by cultural traditions, hierarchial structure within the group. Petty pilfering and conning tended to be accepted as short term and they provided much needed labour resource. Gave nothing to the state but then again took nothing from the state (partially as they were not in any way registered with the state).......Now surpassed by Eastern European immigrants.

I think this is a tricky situation most people seen to tar travellers, gypsies, tinkers and so on with the same brush and i think that is wrong, not all travellers are bad, but try to get closer to nature and the old ways when travelling from place to place was the norm and they tried to avoid upseting the natural balance and cause mass destruction like the "settled" people did with there concrete edifices. A lot follow the old pagan religion and so gather at certain places on special days i.e. summer solstice at stonehendge but too many hangers on and wannabes caused damage witch caused the problems of the eighties and the "battle of the beanfield" where riot police baton charged women and children.

The problem today is a lot of wasters think a similar life but without the respect to nature will mean no council tax and living off the dole an easy life it is these people that cause most of the trouble.