The smoking ban in public places is 1 year old today in Ireland and is deemed a success by the public (smokers and non smokers) although the publicans are still saying that it is affecting business. One of the bonuses of the ban, funnily enough, is the formation of smoking cliques outside. Turned into a bit of a pick up venue generally and a lot of bonding of people who were rejects of society. Always, a lot of laughter, standing outside in all sorts of weather, dragging on a fag. Non smokers got left behind a fair bit inside which can have its own problems. There are some pubs though that were meant for smoking so something does get lost in character. But, as they say, health is the no.1 priority?
So, what do you think? Is it time this is introduced in Britain? What are your concerns/opinions/anticipations?

I'd like to see a smoking ban in London. Partly for my health, but mainly for cosmetic reasons. I am sick and tired of going out for a quick drink and them
coming home stinking of fags. I find it really quite offensive.

I used to be a smoker so perhaps I should be more tolerant, but since stopping I find that the smell of other people stale fags in my hair and on my clothes makes me feel nauseous. Funnily enough, unless the venue is extremely smoky, being around smokers doesn't bother me at the time. Its after the evening has finished that I get bothered.

I feel that I have to have a shower and wash my hair before going to bed, otherwise I stink out the bedclothes too and the smell stops me from sleeping. I have been known to do this at 2:00am!

Besides, I hardly know any smokers these days. Apart from my parents and my brother, everyone I know stopped smoking years ago, so I don't think a ban would affect me socially at all.

So, if there were venues which were guaranteed "smoke-free" zones, I'd definitely be attracted to them.

I used to smoke (ohh! I like saying that - it's almost 7 weeks now) but I don't like the idea of a smoking ban.
I think the choice of whether a place is smoking or non-smoking (or a mixture of both) should be left up to the landlord, restaurant owner etc.

I support a ban, but mostly because I think less people will start smoking in the first place and I don't want my child to smoke - so anything that makes it less likely I support.

I used to smoke too, and I now detest it (partly of course because I'm bitter and twisted that I can't do it and partly for the normal reasons).

Despite the fact that I have given up, I don't agree with a ban. It smacks of the Nanny State. Huge quantities of the food we eat these days is desperately unhealthy - but I don't see it being banned. Children's health is being far more damaged by a poor diet than by people smoking in pubs!! Alcohol itself could hardly be described as beneficial to health - but oddly, no ban on that either.

If pub landlords and restaurants want to make their premises non-smoking, they can do that now (which is what some have chosen to do). Several businesses in my local area took the decision to introduce a voluntary ban - and all of them cancelled it within six months because of the loss of trade.

Ultimately, if people really HATED smoking in these places, they wouldn't use them. That doesn't happen, but the reverse does (i.e. the place doesn't have more customers now, it has less).

There are plenty of things that are extremely prejudicial to health that are allowed to happen....I don't think smoking should be treated any differently.

My city just voted on a smoking ban and it passed! I was worried it wouldn't pass, as it has lost before in votings, but this time it passed. I've always been a supporter of smoking bans, as same as karenh, I can't stand coming home smelling like smoke whenever I go out. And I've never really understood why something that affects health be so openly allowed in public areas.

I don't see how banning smoking in public places would mean that less people would start smoking in the first place - in anything I think kids will see it as forbidden and be even more likely to try it.

I am an ex-smoker who would be happy to see a smoking ban in public places such as pubs and restaurants. Like some of the previous posters, now that I am a non-smoker I hate coming home smelling of cigarette smoke.

When I was a smoker, I was happy to go outside for a fag - whatever the weather - and would not have minded if there was a smoking ban.

Despite the fact that I have given up, I don't agree with a ban. It smacks of the Nanny State. Huge quantities of the food we eat these days is desperately unhealthy - but I don't see it being banned. Children's health is being far more damaged by a poor diet than by people smoking in pubs!! Alcohol itself could hardly be described as beneficial to health - but oddly, no ban on that either.

If pub landlords and restaurants want to make their premises non-smoking, they can do that now (which is what some have chosen to do). Several businesses in my local area took the decision to introduce a voluntary ban - and all of them cancelled it within six months because of the loss of trade.

Ultimately, if people really HATED smoking in these places, they wouldn't use them. That doesn't happen, but the reverse does (i.e. the place doesn't have more customers now, it has less).

There are plenty of things that are extremely prejudicial to health that are allowed to happen....I don't think smoking should be treated any differently.

Im with Ceri on this one! What infuriates me the most is, that the Government reap millions in revenue from tobacco, so they will never outlaw it, yet they want to ban it from public places :mad1: so like Ceri says, are they going to do the same with alcohol???????? I dont think so! Yet alcohol is one of the biggest drains on the NHS and one of the biggest killers in the UK!

Im a smoker, so I am used to not being able to smoke in certain places, but if anything, not being able to smoke will determine where I decide to go...... mind you, from my years in the midlands boozing, I was used to smoking outside, although it wasnt ciggies I was smoking :blush: :devil:

So now, I would prefer to have housefull of friends, do some food, loads of booze and where I can smoke what I like when I like!

I am not really for an out and out ban of smoking in public places. What I would like to see is that anywhere that admits children should be smoke free, whether it be a pub, restaurant, cinema etc, but if a pub doesn't allow children then I see no reason that it has to be smoke free it it doesn't so wish.

I know it would mean that you would have some smoking and some non smoking places but at least then there would be the choice. But I really do think that anywhere where children are should be non-smoking.

What I would like and I know will never happen is for smoking to be banned in town centres, for the very reason that I have been burnt by some careless person waving their cigarette around whilst they are walking in a crowd. Also quite often where they hold their cigarette when they walk is just at the hight of a toddlers head, and this is very dangerous. One my my friends children was caught in the check with a lighted cigarette many years ago, and still has a mark where she was burnt.

I personally don't think a all out ban would stop children starting, I think the best way to discourage a child not to smoke is by example. I have never smoked, and so far non of my 3 teenagers smoke.

I'd like it banned in town centres for that reason too ILS.

I'm sure it helps encourage children not to smoke if their parents don't, but I'm not sure how much. Most of my friends had parents who didn't and yet they still did, and my parents did smoke and although I took it up my brother didn't.

I remember going to a cinema once and you were allowed to smoke inside, which I thought was great at the time as I was a smoker, but after half an hour inside I realised how glad I was most of them were non-smoking. Perhaps thats what will happen with pubs and even the smokes will be glad evetually... I doubt it, but it would be nice if everyone was happy.

Despite the fact that I have given up, I don't agree with a ban. It smacks of the Nanny State. Huge quantities of the food we eat these days is desperately unhealthy - but I don't see it being banned. Children's health is being far more damaged by a poor diet than by people smoking in pubs!! Alcohol itself could hardly be described as beneficial to health - but oddly, no ban on that either.


Sorry to pick on your particular argument Ceridwen, but it seems to have a a bit of a fan club and there is much I disagree with.

Your point is good on the face of it, but if you think deeper there is a HUGE flaw in that argument. Yes, junk food and alcohol are potentially dangerous, but people have a personal choice about whether or not they eat healthy food, or imbibe alcohol and whatever choice they make affects no-one but themselves.

Similarly, a person has a personal right to choose to smoke. However, a person who has opted NOT to smoke has no choice in many scenarios about whether or not they smoke passively. The fag junkies around them deny them that choice.

Sorry, but it doesn't wash to say "don't go into the smokey pubs then". Sometimes there really isn't any choice. Perhaps your best friends stag night is in a smokey venue - should you be forced to offend your friend by refusing to go in order to avoid the smoke? And what do you do if, like me, the only totally non-smoking social venues within a 10 mile radius are the local library and the swimming pool. Do I become a hermit to safeguard my health? Obviously, its ridiculous to suggest that anyone should have to, but the blatent fact is that a non-smoker who does not want to be around smoke is FORCED to be around it sometimes because that is just the way it is. Surely anyone can see how unfair that is? The non-smokers are not harming anyone, the smokers are. So why are the non-smokers making the big sacrifices?

Of course, you are right to say that any business that wishes to make its venue non-smoking can do so. The reason they haven't is NOT because they think that passiove smoking is harmless, or because they think a ban contravenes Human Rights, but because they care more for profits than the health of their customers and they think a ban will scare away a few wallets. That is not a strong argument to counter the suggestion of a ban.

I can almost see the "nanny state" outrage argument, but not quite. I would agree that an outright ban on unhealthy food would be "nanny state" - ultimately a person should have the right to fill themselves full of fatty cr@p and block their arteries if that is what they want to do because they are harming no-one but themselves. Even with alcohol there is a personal choice - their liver, their personal relationships, their choice. A drunk person does not make anyone else drunk by default.

However, a smoker makes all around inhale their rotten, cancer inducing smoke and the people around them have no say in the matter at all. A ban on smoking in public places is not "nanny state" - its bluddy essential for the long term health of the nation. If the suggestion was that there should be a complete smoking prohibition then perhaps I'd agree that its "nanny state", but its not.

In case you hadn't guessed, I'm all for a ban! :laugh:

I tell you what really winds me up is people who as soon as they get off the train are lighting up and blowing it in your face, especially when there is a crowd as your clothes could easily get burnt. I also get fed up with my colleagues disappearing for constant fag breaks and leaving me with the phones etc., Can I claim the extra time - no.

Equally Gov, smokers would then be FORCED to puff all day and night at home - hardly helpful to their children!

I think there are situations where pubs have two TOTALLY separate bars and could easily keep separate smoking and non-smoking areas. In those cases, a "forced" non smoking area would be reasonable.

But some smaller pubs will see their business dramatically driven down, and I am not convinced that is the right thing to do. As with the Disability Discrimination Act, I think adjustments should be "reasonable" - and unfortunately a total ban IS going to affect some small businesses very badly.

I'm sure it helps encourage children not to smoke if their parents don't, but I'm not sure how much. Most of my friends had parents who didn't and yet they still did, and my parents did smoke and although I took it up my brother didn't.



Well I don't know how much it helps either to be honest, but I am sure in some cases it does.

I have never smoked a cigarette in my life yet I was brought up in a household with 3 heavy smokers. And I have friends who smoke who's parents didn't so I know it doesn't always help.

I think peer pressure is a big issue in whether you smoke or not, although saying that when I was a teenager every single one of my friends smoked, I was the only one that didn't. I didn't want to, so I didn't.

I really don't know what is the answer to stop young people taking up this habbit, but by example is a good start.

Smokers would then be FORCED to puff all day and night at home - hardly helpful to their children!



Most parents do that anyway - think of the Lizzie Bardsleys of this world!! The sad thing is with the majority of these parents, they will quite happily puff away on £5 packet of fags a day but are unable to provide their children with healthy meals or clothes on their back........but that is a seperate issue.

I have to agree with Govinder here, non-smokers don't have the choice to inhale 2nd hand smoke and they don't have the choice to have to cling to their hair or their clothes.

Ceri, you do make some very good points ie, the junk food. I wish Jamie Oliver would get his head stuck into some of the family friendly restuarants. We eat at these places, although not too often as the food is generally crap but it is non-smoking but the food for kids is just disgusting.

Scotland is set for a total smoking ban in May next year and I do welcome it. It doesn't mean that I will be trapsing my kids through all the bars in Edinburgh just because it will be no-smoking.

All of the top restaurants in Edinburgh are non-smoking and it has not effected their business, if anything it has increased it.

Both my parents smoked, both in the house, in the car, whereever they could. Both gave up about 20 years ago and both hate it, although they do have health problems and I can't help but wondering if it the smoking is linked to it. A lot is to do with peer pressure but education from your parents and the fact that smoking is now highlighted as being very anti-social and not glamorous as it was when I was young.

I am old enough :cry: to remember when smoking in the cinema was perfectly normal and acceptable as was smoking on airlines, buses, trains etc. We don't have that anymore and it is accepted.

HOW I would laugh :devil: if there is a public smoking ban, which in turn caused THOUSANDS of people to give up the dreaded weed, then lets see what the "powers that be" will start taxing us on to make up lost revenue :glare:

Neither of my sis's smoke, so I rarely smoke at theirs, and when I do its in the garden because of my neices....same at my Mums, I wouldnt DREAM of lighting up in a non smokers home!

And at work, I just go without - jeeeze, I would rather go without than stand in the effing rain having a fag!

Mind you - when I worked at Lunn Poly in the 80's you could still smoke at work and I used to puff my way through nearly 40 marlbro's a day :shocking: so the smoking at work ban did me a favour - saved me a fortune!

Allegedly, both Mr Q and I will be quitting tobacco in July this year - when he hits the big 4 0 :laugh:

OK, I quit smoking 5 weeks ago after 45 years of 30 a day, no, it's not easy, in fact it's total hell, but I will not smoke again no matter what.

However, I do wish to enlighten a few of you on here about certain things I have noticed (or know)on places that now ban smoking.

Airlines......the air quality now is so bad as they don't clean it as they used to when smoking, that about 90% of people get colds, flu, bronchitis or any other catcher going within a week of flying.

Any pub that is Child Friendly, non smoking, serves up such disgusting food for the kids, at ridiculous prices to compensate for the lack of adults. Now when you go to the pub it's like the dregs of Supernanny is inundating the place, and all pubs will soon be this way....family friendly? OK!

Oh, and drinkers and overeaters do no harm to others? Like yeah!

Try sitting on an airline seat for 3 hours+ with a 20 stoner in the seat beside you where her butt overflows onto your seat, and without being downright rude there is dam all you can do about it but cramp up. On buses they take up a double seat so you have to stand on your journey. And yes, I have one came to my home and broke my settee by collapsing on it. They also cost the NHS a fortune in medical bills.

Now, drinkers, oh boy, don't let me go there, enough to say just watch the news any time, any day...I really don't need to say more do I?

If people are going to pick on smokers, then for goodness sake why hasn't some real help come forth to help them quit?? I have been through many things in my life, but this is one of the toughest, hardest and most soul destroying things I have attempted, I would kill for a cigarette, but I know having one would kill me, so I won't. They really just want to drive the smokers into their own homes.....how on earth will they cope with losing all that tax, £35+ per carton per person?? They won't, so they don't want you to stop, just to be seen to be not doing it!

Any pub that is Child Friendly, non smoking, serves up such disgusting food for the kids, at ridiculous prices to compensate for the lack of adults. Now when you go to the pub it's like the dregs of Supernanny is inundating the place, and all pubs will soon be this way....family friendly? OK!

I bluddy HATE going to a pub where other peoples badly behaved children are tearing around and screaming, while Mum and Dad are too busy sinking pints of stella to look after the horrible little creatures......which is why I avoid "family friendly" pubs at ALL COSTS! I just dont like children :shocking:


Now, drinkers, oh boy, don't let me go there, enough to say just watch the news any time, any day...I really don't need to say more do I?

As the daughter of an alcoholic I have to agree with you here!

If people are going to pick on smokers, then for goodness sake why hasn't some real help come forth to help them quit?? I have been through many things in my life, but this is one of the toughest, hardest and most soul destroying things I have attempted, I would kill for a cigarette, but I know having one would kill me, so I won't. They really just want to drive the smokers into their own homes.....how on earth will they cope with losing all that tax, £35+ per carton per person?? They won't, so they don't want you to stop, just to be seen to be not doing it!

Here here, although I have discussed this with my GP and we will join the programme at the Surgery to do this, but I am sure that there are loads of people that dont realise that your GP can help! Keep up the good work Censor - mucho respect for quitting :thumbsup:

And there is NO WAY the government can afford to loose the revenue, although WHERE that revenue goes is beyond me...for the amount of taxes we pay on booze, tobacco and fuel, we should have a pretty much FLAWLESS NHS and Education system! Right, better go now, before I start on about the Millenium Dome :glare: :shutup:

Equally Gov, smokers would then be FORCED to puff all day and night at home - hardly helpful to their children!

If smoking is so important to someone that they are willing to do it at the harm of their children, I would say that is not the problem of the government but the problem of an irresponsible parent. And at this point I would call it an addiction, which is something to be treated, not carried on.

I confess to being a smoker I once gave up for three years and only started again when someone offered me a cigarette and I automatically took it and lit up I was back where I started. I never felt dizzy or sick just enjoyed it 18 years later I am still smoking although in January I made up my mind to try and stop again. So far I have managed to not smoke on weekdays until 3pm when I finish work so now 50gm tobacco lasts me 2 weeks I buy it in bulk in Belgium for around £2.60 a pack. It seems to me that the government are only pushing so hard on this now as they are already losing revenue to France and Belgium. Incidently what I really object to is this idea of a limit on the ammount you can bring back when legally there is no limit that's a Nanny State for you. Mr M and I have been stopped and questioned the last 3 times we have been once they even separated us and asked Mr M how much our household bills were which was laughable as he didn't have a clue. They let us go after 45 mins but it was very unpleasant. We only go twice a year so I told them to check our registration on their computers as we had nothing to hide.

I can't see the problem where possible to have separate rooms for smokers. They used to have carriages for non smokers on trains so what is wrong with carriages for smokers.

Well, after smoking 20 fags I can honestly say that I have never felt the need to pick a fight with anyone, kick all the wing mirrors off a row of cars, smash a huge shop-front window or run anyone down in my car. Nor have I puked in someone's front garden, smeared kebab on their car or kicked over the flowerpots in anyone's front garden.

Smokers or drinkers? Who is the most trouble?

Well, after smoking 20 fags I can honestly say that I have never felt the need to pick a fight with anyone, kick all the wing mirrors off a row of cars, smash a huge shop-front window or run anyone down in my car. Nor have I puked in someone's front garden, smeared kebab on their car or kicked over the flowerpots in anyone's front garden.

Smokers or drinkers? Who is the most trouble?

Exactly what I feel - I have also seen firsthand what a drunk can do to his wife and kids when he gets home after a night drinking - most wife beaters do it when they are pi**ed to the gills, and the next morning sit crying like babies saying they don't remember. Sadly they never do, not the next time, nor the next.....

Well, after smoking 20 fags I can honestly say that I have never felt the need to pick a fight with anyone, kick all the wing mirrors off a row of cars, smash a huge shop-front window or run anyone down in my car. Nor have I puked in someone's front garden, smeared kebab on their car or kicked over the flowerpots in anyone's front garden.


Do you feel like that when you've had a drink then?

smokers of the world unite and take over! an outright smoking ban just wont work. how many pubs especially locals will shut when smoking is banned in them? all those old timers will just buy cans and sit in there house and smoke to there hearts content.

My work has just banned smoking from the front door of the building which means if its rainung we can have no shelter which really annoys me!! :angry:

Do you feel like that when you've had a drink then?

Oh ha ha - I don't drink! I just suffer at the hands of those who do it to excess, living on the main route from the pubs to the housing estates. I've had about 3 or 4 new wing mirrors, given up trying to have any kind of flowers in the garden and now have to park my car a mile away down a side street so that it doesn't get vandalised. I also have to clean up the mess, remove broken bottles and glasses from my front garden and often have to listen to the drunken brawls in the early hours of the morning. I'm surely not the only one.

I'm not anti-drink, I just don't see why smokers have to be made to feel like social outcasts with people always trying and often succeeding in getting smoking banned, when drinking causes far more problems and they seem to be making it easier for them with 24 hour opening and a building on every corner where they can freely indulge!!!

smokers of the world unite and take over! an outright smoking ban just wont work. how many pubs especially locals will shut when smoking is banned in them? :angry:

I would suggest that just a teeny bit of research might answer all these angry questions. A ban on smoking in public places is not a new thing - it has been done already elsewhere.

Interestingly, in New York and Dublin (both of which have implemented bans on smoking in public places) the vendors of bars and restaurants have not noticed any real decline in revenue beyond the first couple of weeks. There is no evidence at all to support the suggestion that businesses would suffer in any significant way.

Face it smokers - no-one would suffer in a smoking ban except for you! That's why you all get your knickers in such a twist. You know that your smoking causes harm to you and passive harm to others. You know that many non-smokers find your habit offensive and disgusting, yet have to tolerate it if they want a social life. Yet you don't stop.

Basically, if a smoking ban were implemented all that would happen is that you would have to suffer as non-smokers have done for decades, except in a different, less harmful way. Non-smokers have suffered the unwarranted risk to their health and the unwelcome stink on their clothes and hair for decades. In the event of a smoking ban, all that would happen is that the 'other side' would suffer. Smokers would have to do without their fag (only indoors, mind you. It's not a TOTAL sacrifice).

I read the arguments against a ban from smokers with incredulity sometimes. They are so unbelieveably selfish! All that is being suggested is that you GO OUTSIDE AND HAVE YOUR FAG! No-one is telling you to give up your risk of lung cancer altogether - just that maybe, maybe it should be a legal requirement that you respect the lungs of others!

A non-smoker harms no-one. Their decision not to smoke does not offend anyone, nor does it harm the health of anyone else or make them stink. Smokers do all of this, yet still have the gall to mount a bluddy uprising whenever someone suggests that a ban in public places might just be a bit of a good idea. Y'know, just to safeguard the health of the people who never chose to smoke a drug in the first place.

I'm not anti-drink, I just don't see why smokers have to be made to feel like social outcasts with people always trying and often succeeding in getting smoking banned, when drinking causes far more problems and they seem to be making it easier for them with 24 hour opening and a building on every corner where they can freely indulge!!!

I'm not anti-drink either. And believe it nor, I'm not anti-smoking. I'm very much pro-choice and if a person wants to smoke, given that it is not against the law I see no reason why they shouldn't. I don't think smokers are lepers, but as a person who has exercised my choice not to smoke, I strongly object to the fact that the smokers choice to smoke can affect my health adversely.

Why the heck should it? My lifestyle choices don't fecking affect them?

To me, a ban in public places seems like the perfect solution. No-one is suggesting making smoking illegal - the smokers can still smoke on the street, in the park and in their own homes. Just not in enclosed, public areas where it can, and does, affect the health of others.

As to the drinking argument - yes, drunks can cause problems. But I don't see that as being at all relevant to this subject because its a whole other issue. The two are not related.

Many times I have seen smokers arguing against the proposed ban by saying "well, drinking is not being banned, and drunks cause fights and domestic violence". This is true, but it is irrelevant as there is no proposal to ban alcohol in public places. When there is, we can have that argument.

So when you have sorted out all the smokers is it the car drivers next belching out their poisonous fumes everywhere also hazardous to the health of others do you drive a car by any chance. Then we can start on those dastardly people using aerosols as the hole in the ozone layer is growing larger. We all know that some things we do are not always going to be accepted by others, that said I am in favour of segregating the smokers from the non smokers wherever possible.

I agree with you Mazwad.
as you can probably tell I am a smoker.
But I don't agree with an all out ban. Why not just have separate rooms for smokers and non-smokers, that way bars don't have a drop in custom and everyone is happy, aren't they?

smokers of the world unite and take over! an outright smoking ban just wont work. how many pubs especially locals will shut when smoking is banned in them? all those old timers will just buy cans and sit in there house and smoke to there hearts content.

My work has just banned smoking from the front door of the building which means if its rainung we can have no shelter which really annoys me!! :angry:

You know if I ran a business I would stop smoking at the front door too! It makes a business look so tacky when you see a bunch of smokers crowded round the doorway.

The worst place for it is hospitals, you have to run the gaunlet everytime you want to go into the building.

Isis - despite me having children I agree, there is nothing worse than having kids running around the bar area. When I go to a pub it is usually on a night out or if I have met friends for lunch, a day away from the kids and I don't want to be pestered with other people's kids!

Critique - I agree that drinkers cause more harm than drinkers, but just how many of those drinkers are smokers, probably the majority as it usually goes hand in hand.

Ban it. Ban the sale of cigarettes, and arrest and execute anyone caught selling them.

Fags are worse than heroin, just as addictive and kill and maim far more people. And what's worse, they are purely for self gratification - there's no other reason for their existence, unlike cars, for instance which pollute and kill but at least provide a way to transport our sorry arzes around the place.

And, passive smoking kills innocent people, and what's worse, also kills or harms unborn babies. Nothing makes my tits turn purple with anger more than to see some slobby, pregnant chav wandering about with a fag in her hand. Twenty years ago maybe - but now there's no excuse because all the health risks are now known and pregnant women are told that they may be harming their unborn baby by smoking...

There should be snatch squads of social workers patrolling amusement arcades and Argos, ready to grab smoking pregnant women and lock them away without access to fags until their baby is born.

If it were not for the fact that hypocritical governments (like the present one which talks the talk but takes the tax) were milking the revenue generated by smokers the habit would have been outlawed long ago.

Come on Norm, get off the fence and say what you really think! :laugh:

As a smoker, I have to admit, that if I am in a smoke free zone, then I am not at all bothered about smoking, once I sniff the tobacco out its a different matter!

I think its a hideous sight to see a pregnant woman smoking, likewise a woman smoking while pushing her baby/toddler along in the buggy, apart from anything else, its so common!! One thing my Mum always drummed into me was not to smoke in the street, its not laydeeeeeeelike apparently, and I never have!

It wont bother me if its banned in public places - as it will save me money if I cant smoke when I am out (mind you I dont go out that much now)....but....it DOES bluddy bother me at the bluddy Govenments bluddy hypocricy and double bluddy standards :mad1: THAT is the only thing that winds me up about the smoking in public ban to be honest!

I think its a hideous sight to see a pregnant woman smoking, likewise a woman smoking while pushing her baby/toddler along in the buggy, apart from anything else, its so common!! One thing my Mum always drummed into me was not to smoke in the street, its not laydeeeeeeelike apparently, and I never have!



When I was going to hospital for my checks when I was pregnant, I was disgusted by the amount of women outside in their housecoats, tied to a drip whilst puffing away!!

The worst one I ever had was once I was in Mothercare changing one of the girls and this women came in with her baby. She started to breastfeed and then she took out her fags and asked me if I minded!!! :shocked: I was gobsmacked.

The worst one I ever had was once I was in Mothercare changing one of the girls and this women came in with her baby. She started to breastfeed and then she took out her fags and asked me if I minded!!! :shocked: I was gobsmacked.

You see? I would argue that this kind of chav should be done for child abuse...not only did she poison her baby while it was in her womb - but she continues to do so as it breasts feeds - and is also oblivious to the effects smoking has on other people around her.

Complete pond life.

When I was going to hospital for my checks when I was pregnant, I was disgusted by the amount of women outside in their housecoats, tied to a drip whilst puffing away!!



I know what you mean Bella, when I was visiting my Mum in hospital a couple of years ago, I went into the garden for a ciggie and there were 3 women out there, all had started labour, but "wanted a fag before it gets too late" I was astounded - its one thing me poisoning my OWN body, but the poor little mites they were about to give birth to didnt deserve it!

What I find difficult to understand though is how come so many healthy babes were born to earlier generations who all smoked liked chimneys??

My grandmother smoked - my uncle was 13lb at birth :shocking:, grew to 6'4" and is now a fit and healthy 70 year old. Both my brother and I were 9+ pounders who grew to be tall healthy adults and my mother smoked through both pregnancies - as did all her contemporaries.

What I find difficult to understand though is how come so many healthy babes were born to earlier generations who all smoked liked chimneys??

My grandmother smoked - my uncle was 13lb at birth :shocking:, grew to 6'4" and is now a fit and healthy 70 year old. Both my brother and I were 9+ pounders who grew to be tall healthy adults and my mother smoked through both pregnancies - as did all her contemporaries.

For all the "healthy" babies which are born to smokers, there are far more premature, undernourished, under-oxygenated (smoking deprives the foetus of oxygen) little mites...the statistics are there, all documented...a quick trawl of the net reveals some helpful facts...babies whose mothers smoked are.....

...more likely to be born prematurely and with a low birth weight (below 2.5kg or 5lb 8oz).

..have a birth weight on average 200g (7oz) less than those born to non-smokers. This effect increases proportionally - the more the mother smokes, the less the child weighs.

..have organs that are smaller on average than babies born to non-smokers.

..have poorer lung function.

..are twice as likely to die from cot death. There seems to be a direct link between cot death and parents smoking.

..are ill more frequently. Babies born to women who smoked 15 cigarettes or more a day during pregnancy are taken into hospital twice as often during the first eight months of life.

...get painful diseases such as inflammation of the middle ear and asthmatic bronchitis more frequently in early childhood.

..are more likely to become smokers themselves in later years.

In addition, pregnant women who smoke increase their risk of early miscarriage.

In later pregnancy, smoking mothers are at increased risk of the baby's placenta coming away from the womb before the baby is born (placental abruption). This may cause the baby to be born prematurely, starve of oxygen, or even to die in the womb (stillborn).


I'd say those are pretty good reasons for arresting mothers who smoke during pregnancy and charging them with child abuse?

I don't disagree with any of that, but has it got any better since fewer women now smoke than in previous generations?

We keep hearing how children today are unhealthy, overweight etc - I'm just interested if there is any comparative research!

Expectant mums that are overweight also put their unborn babies lives at risk. Shall we go out and arrest them too?

I totally disagree with all of Normals post, it's a load of cobblers put out to scare monger. My own knowledge of my family and history goes against all that.

However, will give to a fact to ponder on. If you buy duty frees legally or otherwise you are increasing your chances of cancer 10 fold - they are not as 'clean' as cigs bought legally over the counter for UK consumption. I will verify this as I know that when I did bring in DF's I was always ill - coughs, wheeziness and bronchitis plagued me, but get 'em from Tesco's and I was fine. Not that it bothers me now, 5 weeks quit and rocking!

I think it's easy to overlook the fact that smoking is an addiction. People aren't usually smoking because they WANT to any more, it's because they feel COMPELLED to, and can't stop. That is why some women still smoke when pregnant (not that I am condoning it!) Hypnosis is a very effective way to quit and highly under utilised - nicotine patches are utterly useless if your brain still tells you that you need a fag as a "crutch". I can tell you from my own experience that nicotine, like food, is a psychological addiction far more than a physical one - if it was a physical addiction, you would wake up crying for a cigarette in the night. Those psychological bonds are very, very hard to break without help...you have to rid yourself of those conditioned responses.

I know smoking is an addiction for most people, but for me it was because I enjoyed it. I smoked by association. With a drink, after a meal. Having given up a couple of times totally (both times when pregnant), I went back to it, gradually, just the one, you know the way it goes. It creeps up and becomes almost an obsession so that you actually put yourself into situations where you can justify it to yourself to have a cigarette, ie in the car, at the rugby pitch behind the clubhouse, anywhere the kids can't see you.

Ultimately, the only person I was kidding was myself. I am a naturally compulsive person and if I feel deprived, I crave. Same with food, really. You're right, Ceri, I believe hypnosis works for many, but not everyone. I would certainly like to try it for food, so maybe I'll get that Paul McKenna book.

Now I only smoke when I drink, which is very rare (I don't get out much, especially now).

I know smoking is an addiction for most people, but for me it was because I enjoyed it. I smoked by association.


But that's exactly what I mean Patsy - that IS a programmed response. It's why NLP or hypnosis can be helpful - it "confuses" or "programmes" the mind to do something else (or in some cases do nothing) on those occasions when you would normally reach for a cigarette.

All this anti-smoking talk is making me want to start smoking again!!

I won't, but as soon as I hear the anti-smoking lobby get started it always makes me wany to join the other team!

Well, if anyone is interested, here is my smoking story.

Firstly, I didn't start smoking until I was in my thirties! I married a smoker and had no wish to smoke, having heard scare stories about what it is supposed to do to your health.

In or around 1977 the Government brought out something called NSM cigarettes (you younger ones probably won't remember). It stood for New Smoking Material and was supposed to be relatively safe. At that precise time I had a very boring job and I had gained a few pounds and wanted to lose weight. I started smoking the NSM cigarettes and found them OK since I had never smoked "real" cigarettes.

Unfortunately, those people that were addicted to proper cigarettes found them awful, and as they weren't much cheaper than normal cigs, they failed miserably and had to be withdrawn from sale. I remember a news item where they said they were burning them by the warehouse-load.

Unfortunately I then went on to smoke "real" cigarettes, having got into the habit.

In 1997 I packed up because my mum had been told by her doctor that she should stop. We both did it, just stopped, no patches, hypnosis or anything.

I stopped for 5 years - the worst 5 years of my life. During that time I lost first my mother, then my son and I had severe depression, attempted suicide, took so many anti-depressants and drugs that I rattled. I also felt more ill than I have ever felt in my life. I had constant colds, bronchitis, chest infections.

While I was staying with my sis-in-law in Wales (trying to come to terms with everything) she asked me to hold a cigarette for her while she went in a shop. I took a puff and by the time I came home I was back on them.

Well, I'm off the pills, got my life back to some semblance of "normal" and I have stayed in reasonably good health.

When people ask me why I smoke I usually say "it was cigarettes or Valium - I chose cigarettes".

Make what you like of that. I may pack up again, I may not.

Now Critique, I can really relate to you there! I quit just over 5 weeks ago - I have already gained 10lbs, have spent what I saved on food, next it will be clothes. At this rate I will be overweight, immovable and a prime one for heart disease!! I am much shorter tempered than I was - I was the cool, laid back one who just chilled and was easy going, now I will snap at anyone and anything in a flash!

Have you noticed that Air-Rage never existed until they stopped smoking on flights? It's true!

I would really love to get where I could smoke just 3-4 a day and be content with my lot, but it doesn't work that way sadly!

I have a cousin who smoked abou 20 a day, she quit for 12 years, and in that time she went through all you did when you quit, and a bit more (poor Lass)....she is now back smoking, but on 60 a day, and she's over 20 stone to boot (gained from quitting).

If I gain 4 more pounds (a stone) I am going back to the smokes!

Girls read, "The Only Way to Stop Smoking Permanently" by Allen Carr. Also Paul McKenna does a hypnosis CD. Both these things will stop you having that bad tempered irritable feeling and deal with the food cravings. Since I stopped smoking I have lost a stone and work out regularly. I felt ruddy awful the first few weeks but now I feel great.

Honestly, if you can give up and be happy, why not do it? If it doesn't work it will only have cost you the price of 60 fags anyway. And Censor, you are just talking yourself back into it! Please give my suggestions a try because as I say, you WILL fail if your head still craves them....and that's the real problem. Willpower alone is a waste of time if you still think of smoking as something you enjoy!

LOL!! Just noticed this Cat's Lesbian Lover Hmmmm! :blush:

I know what you say is right Ceri, but today has just been a real bad day, so I am in ultra cranky mood anyway. I did go for hynotherapy a few years back (about 20 in fact) in an attempt to quit, cost me over £100 and did nothing at all to me. When I complained I was told I was too strong a personality and hard to do....yeah OK!!

I am planning a brisk 5 mile power walk tomorrow, so I'll see if that 3 times a week will help do anything, I am also thinking about the GI diet, I have heard such brilliant reports on it. I need to do something to clear my mind from forever using food as compensation so I will look out those recommends by you - ta! :)

This is going to be a real honest post, and you'll probably all lynch me after reading it, but here goes.

I smoke as most of you know, and yes I smoked when I was pregnant.
I know of all the risks involved with it, I know of all the problems that my kids could get, and that I can get, and of passive smoking.
I know all that, but yet I smoke.
Luckily for me my kids are fine, they were of average birth weight, they have had no hospital admissions, they have no asthma or allergies and only pick up bugs that every other kid picks up.
I have the Allan Carr book as well and have read half of it and agree with what he says. The one thing that he does say that I do think about is why do smokers always tell their kids not to smoke and then go and light one up.
I guess what I am saying is that I do want to give up, but I am a defeatist.
I hear Cat talking about how she gave up really well with that book, no side effects or anything. But my mind says, Nah that'll never work with me.

But I guess, in my own time, one day, I think I will give up.
I have to be ready for it myself, no one is going to force me.
No matter how many people tell me all the risks I have to do it for myself. For Pete's sake, I'm a nurse, I've seen what it does.

I have no idea why I have posted all this.
I don't want any sympathy,or moral support or anything like that.
I just think that generalising smokers as common, good for nothing people gets to me.

Right I'm off to run and hide :ninja:

Don't run and hide, you are just a typical smoker as I was! I had 3 kids, one I quit smoking to have was the tiniest of the lot, the other two I smoked with and they were both big and strong.

I have been getting nagged for years, and the more I got nagged the more I thought "sod you" and carried on. I had to be ready for me to do it. It is an addiction, and those who haven't been there have no clue how much those 'sticks' mean to us.

Do it when you are ready - I did!

I don't think anyone is saying that smokers are common or good for nothing. I believe that even the most avid non-smoker is close to someone who smokes. If anyone told me I was, I would either ignore them or punch their lights out. I admire anyone who can give up totally, like Cat, for instance. What I don't like, however, is an inconsiderate smoker. I consider myself to have been a very considerate one, ie only where generally considered appropriate.

It's easy to be logical, but once you're hooked, it's a ****** to let go. Of course that's why it's better not to start in the first place, which is why we tell our kids not to. My kids knew I used to, but think I have given up totally.
You're either a compulsive or you're not. And yes, hypnotism is an option, but like I said it doesn't always work.

Like you say, Andrea, you have to be ready to do it and when you are, you will. I know many nurses who smoke, drink, the works. There is no hard and fast way to do it, only your way and only if you want to. Your reason for wanting to could present itself in many different ways. I just didn't like the way it was taking over my life, so I limit myself, which works for me.

My Mum was told to start smoking in the 1950s to help her with travel sickness!! Consequently, she smoked through all 3 pregnancies, we were, like yours, very healthy large allergy-free babies.

Jeez. This thread has turned into something a bit weird. All the soul searching and justification. :mellow: And all the defensiveness!

If people want to smoke that's fine by me. It's no-one elses business to tell anyone else how to live their life. Smoke, by all means. Drink. Take drugs. Eat cr@p. Sit on your @rse all day and never do any exercise. It's your life, its your choice, and it makes no difference to me. I'm no angel - I do some of those things myself so I'm not going to think less of anyone for the lifestyle choices they make. Unless those choices have a direct, harmful affect on me.

Unfortunately, I see smoking in public places as falling into that criteria. A lot of the time smokers don't bother me, but sometimes they do. I have had to leave social events that I have been enjoying because the smoke gets too much for me - my eyes sting, my throat hurts and I get a headache. I'm not trying to suggest that smokers should stop altogether, but I don't think it is unreasonable to ask them to go outside in the fresh air and indulge their habit there. They need to accept and acknowlegde that their lifestyle choices have such a negative affect on others and act accordingly.

I have to say though that I'm not normally affected this way by just 1 smoker. It tends to be in venues where there are many smokers in a concentrated area - THAT is when it is really bad for non-smokers. Individually, the smokers will be doing their best not to blow smoke into the faces of the non-smokers, but collectively, all that smoke is awful for someone whose lungs and sinus passages are just not used to it.

That is why I am in favour of a ban in public places. Not because I think smokers are skanky and disgusting - as individuals they are perfectly nice, normal people. And as individual smokers, they are usually considerate. But when in a venue that allows smokers to congregate, the cumulative effect of all their individual smoke is really, really, unpleasant for non-smokers.

I too smoked through my pregnancies and my second son was 9lb 3oz neither of my sons had health problems. My pregnancies were in the early 70's when the information we have now was not available so I can't honestly say if I would or wouldn't have smoked whilst pregnant. It's so easy to judge and label people for this or that our needs are all different and some people have a more addictive personality than others. I did manage to keep out of the drug scene that was all around me then so I do have some willpower and I drink only when I feel like it only on occaision to excess.
I had my first smoke age 8 it was some sort of creeper wood that grew in our garden it dried out in the summer and one of my brothers showed me you could smoke it. When I was 11 I had a paper round and was buying 10 menthols on a saturday that lasted me all week. At 15 when I started work I was on 10 a day that slowly crept up to 15 which I maintained until the age of 30. At this point I stopped for 3 years and used the money to take driving lessons as I couldn't afford to do both. In a weak moment someone offered me a cigarette and that was it I started again, except now I roll my own due to the cost. I may give up again one day I may not but it will be my choice. I do try and show consideration for others as a matter of good manners but I confess I do not stay as long on a visit to non smokers houses.

I totally disagree with all of Normals post, it's a load of cobblers put out to scare monger. My own knowledge of my family and history goes against all that.

I think Normal's post makes perfect sense. He is saying that smoking during pregnancy is likely to harm the foetus.

Surely to claim (or imply) that it's not so because Mrs so-and-so smoked 20 Capstan Full Strength a day while she was pregnant and her little Jimmy was a big healthy baby is to take a very blinkered view.

Like a woman I know who can't quit smoking and argues that her friend smoked and lived to a ripe old age and didn't get cancer so it's not as dangerous as people make out.

If I put on a blindfold and walk across three lanes of the M1 and reach the central reservation unharmed, does that make it a safe pastime?

I totally disagree with all of Normals post, it's a load of cobblers put out to scare monger.


Hmmm The Censor V The Royal College of Surgeons, the BMA, the American Surgeon General, in fact almost all doctors anywhere on the planet, really.

Now, who would you believe?

I am not sure I could smoke if I was pregnant. honestly, find it hard to understand how you could put a child at risk. However, I have never been seriously addicted to nicotine so maybe I just dont understand the nicotine pull.
The thread was started about the ban but also about how the smoking social culture has blossomed with this ban. Ignoring the health risks for a moment, I love smoking. I love to go into smoky dens, hang out and smoke. I find it deeply relaxing and fun. Ive never really bothered about smelling of smoke myself.
Health+social impacts of smoking to get together at some stage.Or not.

I think Normal's post makes perfect sense. He is saying that smoking during pregnancy is likely to harm the foetus.

Surely to claim (or imply) that it's not so because Mrs so-and-so smoked 20 Capstan Full Strength a day while she was pregnant and her little Jimmy was a big healthy baby is to take a very blinkered view.

Like a woman I know who can't quit smoking and argues that her friend smoked and lived to a ripe old age and didn't get cancer so it's not as dangerous as people make out.

If I put on a blindfold and walk across three lanes of the M1 and reach the central reservation unharmed, does that make it a safe pastime?

Oh you total ****ing ignoramous you!

Have any of you ever thougth that smoking is an addiction like anything else...you find out you're pregnant.."oh I will stop my 20 a day 15 year habit now- this second" couldn't be easier....for those of you who smoke and have not yet had children I can assure you IT IS NOT.

Why not install pregnancy hormones into heroine addicts if its that bloody easy...oh I think I'm pregnant...I'll stop taking heroin now to protect the baby.

I have smoked since I was 12...I smoked thru all of my pregnancies (Well done Andrea for being honest). Thats what I loved about Allan Carrs book, he was the first person to feel sorry for pregnant women who smoked and they way they are just expected to stop...it just dosn't happen I'm afraid.

I stopped 6 months after my 3rd and last child was born because I had a cough that was killing me. I was desperate and some one recommended this book..it worked, I don't know why but it did.

Yes it has been suprisingly easy for me but I will never, EVER, poo poo anyone else trying to stop and until you find YOURSELF in that place and want to do it for yourself only. Only then will you stop.

:pimp:

PS
****ing hell I'm exhausted now..

Well I acknowledge two things:

smoking is harmful
smoking is addictive

but as you yourself have shown Cat, it is possible to stop.

Well I acknowledge two things:

smoking is harmful
smoking is addictive

but as you yourself have shown Cat, it is possible to stop.

Yes, you may acknowlege the above but if a smoking, pregnant mother came on here...how would you deal with her.

I couldn't Cat - she'd have to sort the problem out herself.

I bought Alan Carrs book today, and hope to start reading it tomorrow, I have stopped smoking, 6 weeks ago today, but I am suffering so much it would be the easy way out to just pop out and buy a pack and say sod it.

I hope it helps me Cat

The thing many of you non smokers are probably unaware of is that the profession with the greatest number of smokers is the medical profession, and that is absolute fact - always ever has been so. Hell, I was put onto smoking at nursing college back in the 60's, and they all smoked, pregnant Mums were allowed to smoke in hospital then, and tell you what, the rates of Asthma back then was minimal, kids bloomed on Cow and Gate and were seldom ill.

You wanna blame something for the illnesses in kids today? Look at transport, look at Mums standing at kerbsides with babies on a level to the exhaust fumes belching out. Look at houses sealed up with double glazing, fitted carpets, and central heating. Look at the foods kids eat today, Jamie Oliver proved that fresh foods has cut the incidence of asthma attacks in schools.

Just stop blaming all the worlds ills on smokers, it bollox, it's cruel, smoking is an addiction, like a druggie or an alcohlic. If you really want them to stop, scream at the pharmaceutical companies to come up with something to help them stop - they could if they wanted to, but I doubt they'd get government funding.

Look at transport, look at Mums standing at kerbsides with babies on a level to the exhaust fumes belching out. Look at houses sealed up with double glazing, fitted carpets, and central heating. Look at the foods kids eat today,

Separate issue.

I don't think so

I couldn't Cat - she'd have to sort the problem out herself.

True.
So if she posted at the same time a 40 year old male did..what would be your advice

This thread is getting a little heated :mellow: Every time there has been a thread on this subject it turns into a "Them vs Us" discussion.

S'great! But chill out guys. If the ban happens, it happens. If it doesn't, well....it doesn't. Either way, we don't have much influence on it one way or the other and a discussion like this is not going to change anyones mind on the matter. Those in favour of the ban will always be in favour and vice versa.

Accept it.

This thread is getting a little heated :mellow: Every time there has been a thread on this subject it turns into a "Them vs Us" discussion.

S'great! But chill out guys. If the ban happens, it happens. If it doesn't, well....it doesn't. Either way, we don't have much influence on it one way or the other and a discussion like this is not going to change anyones mind on the matter. Those in favour of the ban will always be in favour and vice versa.

Accept it.

Oh but we enjoy a heated discussion. It's interesting to hear everyone's point of view. I'm sure nobody really takes offence when other people's opinions differ from their own. I know I don't.

Separate issue.

I am sure all good debates bring up other issues related to the facts. We were talking about how fumes affect other people in public places therefore the exhaust fume comparison is valid, and other topics about health etc crop up quite naturally even if only loosely connected. At least us smokers seem to be showing a little more compasion for our fellow man. I love a good debate as thats what this thread is for or so I thought. No offence anyone as there has been none taken here.

I am sure all good debates bring up other issues related to the facts. We were talking about how fumes affect other people in public places therefore the exhaust fume comparison is valid, and other topics about health etc crop up quite naturally even if only loosely connected. At least us smokers seem to be showing a little more compasion for our fellow man. I love a good debate as thats what this thread is for or so I thought. No offence anyone as there has been none taken here.

Surely, just because there are other things apart from smoking that are bad for the health doesn't make smoking any less harmful than it is? As a parallel, if I beat my wife, would it make it any better if I pointed out that there are other far worse things that could happen to her?

PS I don't agree that smokers are showing compassion for others by smoking.

True.
So if she posted at the same time a 40 year old male did..what would be your advice

I don't know Cat. What would your advice be?

When the ban is introduced, smoking should be recognised as an addiction.

Currently if you have a drug addict or an alcoholic working for you and you want to dismiss them, you have to protect yourself by treating them sensitively and with understanding, giving them support to seek treatment.

Smokers however could be dismissed for breaching company no-smoking rules.

Smoking can be just as difficult to give up as alcohol and/or drugs for some people and should be treated in a similar fashion.

Surely, just because there are other things apart from smoking that are bad for the health doesn't make smoking any less harmful than it is? As a parallel, if I beat my wife, would it make it any better if I pointed out that there are other far worse things that could happen to her?

PS I don't agree that smokers are showing compassion for others by smoking.

we show an understanding of why you don't like it and I have said I am in favour of segregation but not outlawing it. As to beating your wife she could leave as a non smoker in a room full of smokers can its all down to freedom of choice in the end.

PS I don't agree that smokers are showing compassion for others by smoking.

Oh I am: I don't smoke these:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v611/liberated60s/smoking1.jpg


I only smoke these:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v611/liberated60s/smoking2brian.jpg

I don't know Cat. What would your advice be?

I would advise her against having unprotected sexual intercourse.

Surely anyone even thinking of getting pregnant would stop smoking??

Funny isn't it? There are some people here who would tut-tut about a heroin addict carrying on jacking up while pregnant, but will defend mothers who smoke in the same rooms as their kids or smoke while they are expecting.

There is no excuse. If you are too weak to give up smoking, too addicted, too reliant on a pointless, stupid, self-indulgent drug, there's a simple answer: Don't have kids.

But of course the reality is that many many mothers do give up because they care more about the health of their children than inhaling a harmful, poisonous drug everyday.

I admire them and they deserve all the support they can get. As for the rest..well...

Normal

Why is it I get the feeling you are a fella, and you have never smoked, and you really don't have the first idea?

Not all babies are planned, many take till the first period is missed to be discovered, in fact about 6 weeks into the pregnancy is pretty normal, even in this day and age. I have actually heard doctors tell expectant Mums who are scared silly that if they can't stop to just try and cut down, reason being that too much stress could do even more harm to the baby, and quitting smoking is stressful, trust me on that one, I'm doing it right now!!

Surely anyone even thinking of getting pregnant would stop smoking??

Funny isn't it? There are some people here who would tut-tut about a heroin addict carrying on jacking up while pregnant, but will defend mothers who smoke in the same rooms as their kids or smoke while they are expecting.

There is no excuse. If you are too weak to give up smoking, too addicted, too reliant on a pointless, stupid, self-indulgent drug, there's a simple answer: Don't have kids.

But of course the reality is that many many mothers do give up because they care more about the health of their children than inhaling a harmful, poisonous drug everyday.

I admire them and they deserve all the support they can get. As for the rest..well...

:shutup:









.

Surely anyone even thinking of getting pregnant would stop smoking??

Funny isn't it? There are some people here who would tut-tut about a heroin addict carrying on jacking up while pregnant, but will defend mothers who smoke in the same rooms as their kids or smoke while they are expecting.

There is no excuse. If you are too weak to give up smoking, too addicted, too reliant on a pointless, stupid, self-indulgent drug, there's a simple answer: Don't have kids.

But of course the reality is that many many mothers do give up because they care more about the health of their children than inhaling a harmful, poisonous drug everyday.

I admire them and they deserve all the support they can get. As for the rest..well...


Clearly, you are a very strong person with no flaws. Well done.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/Vogue/cid_050201c52ec773abdda0dd869951mummysues.gif


Bit of lightness called for methinks! :wink_kiss

One thing that shows what a pernicious drug nicotine is is the lengths to which smokers will go to defend their habit and the silly arguments they sometimes use.

I quit smoking in 1993. Last summer I had a couple at a party, this became one a day, then five a day and by February quite a lot more. I stopped again three weeks ago and I have no intention of going back. It is very easy to get into, especially if you're an all or nothing type, and like Censor says a struggle to stop. If you really want to you can. But you have to want to.

I say BAN CIGARETTES full stop! It may make it easier for me! I only have a few every so often, but I keep quitting and starting and quitting and starting! a year of smoking and a year not... it's getting tiresome! :wacko: :blush:

re smoking in public places - people should have respect for the health of others. If you want to kill yourself, then do it, but don't drag everybody else down with you! It's like a person with AIDS sleeping around! :)

If you want to kill yourself, then do it, but don't drag everybody else down with you! It's like a person with AIDS sleeping around! :)

That's actually not a bad analogy.

I think I'm changing my mind about a smoking ban - I'm being converted to being for a ban.......
I've just come back from Italy where they have recently intrduced a smoking ban in restaurants and bars - I don't know all the ins and outs if it, but so far as I can make out - restaurant and bar owners can have if they want a separate smoking area, which has to have an air-filtration system and it's own dedicated staff (so that waiters from the smoking side, don't take smoke iwth them into the non-smoking section I guess). It has to be a separate room - it can't be a corner of the same room the non-smoking tables are in.

None of the restaurants I went into had opted to have a smoking section (mainly I guess because of the extra cost involved in setting it up). Also, because of the warmer climate there is also the option of sitting at an outside table an smoking.

Yesterday it was pouring with rain so Mr M and I sat inside a restaurant for a meal for the first time during our trip. Mr M had a cigarette before we went in (he's a very heavy smoker). He will usually smoke between courses - this time he didn't, he had the option of going outside for a ciggie and leaving me sitting at the table like minky-no-mates, but he didn't......and the meal was a much nicer occasion for it.
The reastaurant had a nice clean feel to it - there was no cloud of smoke hanging over the tables by the end of the meal and the air was clear.

I gave up smoking 2 months ago (it was 2 months on Saturday) - I used the Allan Carr book after reading that Cat had given up after reading it.
Mr M has tried reading it too - but he got to the section where you are supposed to smoke your lat cigarette and he hasn't got any further - I guess he will when the time is right for him.

I gave up smoking 2 months ago (it was 2 months on Saturday) - I used the Allan Carr book after reading that Cat had given up after reading it.
Mr M has tried reading it too - but he got to the section where you are supposed to smoke your lat cigarette and he hasn't got any further - I guess he will when the time is right for him.

I'm really pleased it's worked for you, well done. :)

Oooh - I keep meaning to say, I too gave up with the help of Allan Carr's Easy Way to Stop Smoking!

I was a heavy smoker for years before I made my first serious attempt to stop smoking. I'd hated being a smoker, but was very scared to give up. I felt that stopping smoking would be like stopping life. The main thing that attracted me to Carr's book was that I could continue smoking whilst I read it! However, as soon as I finished reading it, I knew that I desperately wanted to be a non-smoker, and I knew that I could stop. And I did - for 2 years. It was remarkably easy.

However, I did start again - several times - but I have never forgotten the messages in that book and they have kept me strong enough to keep trying as a non-smoker. I am now in my 6th month of being a non-smoker and at this point in time, I cannot imagine ever wanting to smoke again.

To all those smokers out there who don't want to be smokers, give the book a try? What's the worst that can happen? It doesn't work! In which case, you are no worse off than you are now!

If you want to kill yourself, then do it, but don't drag everybody else down with you! It's like a person with AIDS sleeping around!

People with aids can wear a condom. Maybe you could wear a mask?

To all those smokers out there who don't want to be smokers, give the book a try? What's the worst that can happen?

Actually Karen I think the worst thing that can happen (from a smoker's point of view) is that it DOES work! I remember being terrified of giving up - not in case I failed (which was the easy option) but in case I SUCCEEDED - and had to face life as a non smoker! :ohmy:

Of course the beauty of Allen's book is that it DOESN'T scare you to stop once you've read it - quite the opposite. In fact, it redcues your cravings to nothing and you give up easily....and you WON'T feel like it's the end of a pleasure at all! :)

Actually Karen I think the worst thing that can happen (from a smoker's point of view) is that it DOES work!


Yeah - fair comment. That rings a bell. :wink2:

I think what is being forgotten here, is that there are some smokers who will never be able to give up. Should we treat them like they are second class citizens or should we feel sorry for them?

My natural mother smokes very heavily, for her it is really her only pleasure in life. She started smoking back before the harm smoking does was made available to the public. She has suffered from her nerves all her life and has had several nervous breakdowns. She lives alone in a tiny bedsit on a pension & state benefits. Smoking keeps her sane! I know that if she goes too long between cigarettes she becomes a different person, she becomes very insecure and a nervous wreck. She smoked whilst she was pregnant with me and although I was not a particularly small baby, I am small in height and have breathing problems which probably stem from her smoking. But should she be made to feel she is a bad person because of her lack of willpower.

As I have said many times, I am a non smoker who has never had one cigarette in my life and would be devastated if any of my children ever smoked but I do realise that smoking is an addiction that not everyone will be able to kick, and I would hate to think of my mother and others like her becoming outcasts!

I think what is being forgotten here, is that there are some smokers who will never be able to give up. Should we treat them like they are second class citizens or should we feel sorry for them?

I think we should feel sorry for them if anything. Especially older smokers, who would have been positively encouraged to smoke whilst they were young.

My parents are much the same as your Mum ILS, and I would hate to think that they would be treated like scum because of their addiction. I remember my Mum telling me how - at the age of 22 - she forced herself to become addicted to fags because as a non-smoker she was seen as uncool. She should never have started, and now she cannot stop. Of course, back then, the awful danger of smoking were not known.

Younger smokers are less pitiful as they have always known the dangers and chosen to smoke in spite of them. But still, it's a drug addiction. And its a legal one! The government allow the sale of nicotine to anyone over the ge of 16. Addicts of other drugs are given government aided help and assistance. Addicts of nicotine are given little or no help to break their addiction - for them it is pure strength of will.

No - smokers should not be treated like 2nd class citizens, but then neither should they have the freedom to hinder the enjoyment of non-smokers while they satisfy their cravings. I'm all in favour of a ban on smoking in public places. But if I thought that smokers would be outcast and despised I think it would be horribly unfair.

I cannot abide people talking about smokers as if they are "scum", or dirty, or low. In a way, they are talking about my parents! I find it judgemental and narrow-minded in the extreme. Only a non-smoker (as in someone who has nver smoked) could talk like that. Don't they realise that they are the lucky ones, and that with different influences in their life it could easily have been them smoking.

As much as I hate smoking and I cannot wait until the smoking ban takes effect in Scotland, there are worse things than smoking. My best friend was pregnant around the same time as I was with Abbie, she was and still is a smoker. She knows how I feel about smoking, but I still love her to bits and honestly would not be without her. She did cut during the pregnancy and she did feel very guilty about, in fact there were times she was in tears thinking about the harm she was doing to her child. I have to say that I never preached to her during those months or gave her a hard time, she had a really bad time of it and I felt awful for her. She still smokes occassionally but nowhere near as many as she did and some days she doesn't smoke at all. She does feel guilty about it, as she smokes outside her own house, and feels worse about it because her partner gave up before the wee one was born. She knows that one day she will give up, but as I have said as much as I hate smoking she is a good friend and has many great qualilties that I like and we both know where we stand with the smoking issue.

Just because you are a smoker does not make you a bad parent - my parents both smoked and I love them, I hated them smoking but I had a happy childhood, my mum & dad were there for me, our home was a happy one. There was a family across the road from me, where the parents didn't smoke and had themost perfect house! We were hardly ever allowed in their house, whereas they were in ours all the time, playing with our toys. Their house was perfection and they were hardly ever taken out on day-trips with their parents as their mum was too busy cleaning the house making it sparkle. They were always boasting about their new furniture, new curtains etc..........I am not saying it was because they were non-smokers that that was the reason for their behaviour, what I am trying to say it that just because you smoke does not mean that you don't love your children or care for them. I remember many nights sat round the table playing Monopoly, Scrabble etc...yeah my mum & dad probably smoked whilst doing but they were still having fun with us.

That said though, I still totally welcome the smoking ban in Scotland! :)

No - smokers should not be treated like 2nd class citizens, but then neither should they have the freedom to hinder the enjoyment of non-smokers while they satisfy their cravings.



No they shouldn't.. although I do feel sorry for the older smokers who were hooked before they knew what damage they were doing to themselves and others, who don't have the willpower to stop. But I really have no sympathy for the younger smokers who chose to smoke knowing the dangers.

No they shouldn't.. although I do feel sorry for the older smokers who were hooked before they knew what damage they were doing to themselves and others, who don't have the willpower to stop. But I really have no sympathy for the younger smokers who chose to smoke knowing the dangers.

Well, you see, I probably fall into that "younger smokers" bracket. I accept that it's harder to feel pity for the younger smokers, but I still don't think they should be treated like 2nd class citizens. I've stopped now, but having been an addict I can never, ever say with 100% confidence that I will never smoke again. Once an addict, always an addict.

It's pitiful.

Now I hope I don't, but lets say I should smoke again? I know that I am not a bad person. I have friends, people like my company and I think I am quite kind hearted. I do not deserve to be treated like a 2nd class citizen.

No-one does really.

Now I hope I don't, but lets say I should smoke again? I know that I am not a bad person. I have friends, people like my company and I think I am quite kind hearted. I do not deserve to be treated like a 2nd class citizen. No-one does really.

You know what, I think it is smokers who think badly of themselves, more so than other people thinking badly of them. What I mean is that I'm sure most smokers know that it's wrong and feel bad about themselves for doing it, and even worse knowing they can't stop.

I started smoking at 12 because I was literally forced to. I was being beaten up regularly by a gang of girls at school and I was terrified of them. However as I was a pitiful individual I used to forlornly hope that I could make them like me, so I used to try and "fit in" with them to avoid the beatings. One day they told me to smoke and I refused. They kept on at me and I started crying (pathetic I know) so they then held me down and literally forced the cigarette in my mouth. I was nearly sick, but I was so determined to be part of the "incrowd" that I persevered with it until I found it bearable, and then eventually until I was hooked. Needless to say it did not earn me any respect, and over the years it cost me a fortune and probably quite a few wrinkles long term. I am glad I have given up now but it was very, very hard indeed. So I feel sorry for the people who are still hooked, and fully understand that their rationale for smoking is not logical, but the result of a genuine addiction.

Well, you see, I probably fall into that "younger smokers" bracket. I accept that it's harder to feel pity for the younger smokers, but I still don't think they should be treated like 2nd class citizens. I've stopped now, but having been an addict I can never, ever say with 100% confidence that I will never smoke again. Once an addict, always an addict.

It's pitiful.

Now I hope I don't, but lets say I should smoke again? I know that I am not a bad person. I have friends, people like my company and I think I am quite kind hearted. I do not deserve to be treated like a 2nd class citizen.

No-one does really.

Well although I don't feel pity for them like I do for the older smokers, I certainly don't think they should be treated like 2nd class citizens and if that is how my post came across then I apologise, it was not what I meant. I don't think younger smokers are bad people far from it, I just think they were daft to start, but I suppose I think that, because I have never ever had a cigarette in my life and never wanted to.

Most of my friends are smokers and although I think they are daft to smoke, it is their choice, I am not going to judge them on it. In fact I am not for an all and all ban of smoking in public places even though I am a non smoker, I would like to see some pubs that allow smoking although I do think they should be child free zones. I personally would go in these pubs if I was socialising with smokers, even though I hate the smell of smoke on my clothes and on my hair. I know if I want to spend time with these friends I have to put up with their smoking, I guess just as they have to put up with things about me that they don't particularly like.

I am sorry if you thought I meant that you and anyone else that has/does smoke is a bad person because that couldn't be further from the truth, I realise it is an addiction and I admire anyone who has given up, as to be honest I think if I had ever started smoking I don't know that I would have been able to.

ILS - I actually didn't think you were suggesting that younger smokers deserve 2nd class treatment. I think I know you better than to think that. :)

But your comment of "I have no sympathy for the younger smokers" seemed a bit harsh. Younger smokers are still drug addicts - just as your parents are - and many will find it no easier to stop than it would be for your Mum. I agree that they were daft to start in the first place, knowing the dangers, but most people don't start smoking as mature, rational adults. Most smokers start when they are impressionable teenagers. And most adolescents think they are invincible. Words like addiction, "death", "Cancer", wrinkles, heart disease.....they just don't think it will ever happen to them.

Most smokers are paying a high price for their teenage folly and personally I think that does deserve some pity.

most people don't start smoking as mature, rational adults.

I did :ninja:

But your comment of "I have no sympathy for the younger smokers" seemed a bit harsh. Younger smokers are still drug addicts - just as your parents are - and many will find it no easier to stop than it would be for your Mum. I agree that they were daft to start in the first place, knowing the dangers, but most people don't start smoking as mature, rational adults. Most smokers start when they are impressionable teenagers. And most adolescents think they are invincible. Words like addiction, "death", "Cancer", wrinkles, heart disease.....they just don't think it will ever happen to them.

Most smokers are paying a high price for their teenage folly and personally I think that does deserve some pity.

I see your point Karen & I do understand that peer pressure is a big reason why youngsters start to smoke. And although I don't pity them like I do the older smokers, I do think some pay a high price for their teenager folly and that is why I am not for an all out ban because I feel this discriminates against them.

I myself was put under an awful lot of pressure to smoke when I was a teenager by my 'friends'. But because I am a stubborn bitch, nothing would have persuaded me. I had made up my mind due to mum, dad & natural mothers additions that I would never never smoke and I haven't. I know that everyone is not as stubborn as I am and some like Ceri feel they have to smoke to fit in. I think it is terrible we live in a society that teenagers feel they have to endanger their lives and that of others to fit in.

I personally feel I am very tolerant of smokers, the only think I object to is if it is blown in my face or the smoker holds their cigarette so the smoke floats in my direction.

People with aids can wear a condom. Maybe you could wear a mask?


I've got a better idea..maybe we could just be allowed to breath air unpolluted by smokers? Is that such a terrible thing to ask?

If smokers want to smoke, please do so cowering in an airtight bunker 1000 feet below ground. (and leave your kids upstairs in the fresh air please)

And if you are too much of a raddled drug addict to give up, have a look at this page....it's what you are metamorphosing into...

http://whyquit.com/whyquit/smokersbody.jpg

Is your real name Norris?

Is your real name Norris?

LMFAO :laugh: :laugh:


:blush: sorry Norm :unsure: :shutup:

.... :wink2: ....

I've got a better idea..maybe we could just be allowed to breath air unpolluted by smokers? Is that such a terrible thing to ask?

If smokers want to smoke, please do so cowering in an airtight bunker 1000 feet below ground. (and leave your kids upstairs in the fresh air please)

And if you are too much of a raddled drug addict to give up, have a look at this page....it's what you are metamorphosing into...

http://whyquit.com/whyquit/smokersbody.jpg

Wow! That's great - it says smoking actually reduces the cancer risk in women...:thumbsup: