Will you be watching/betting/sweepstaking the Grand National?

Personally I think it's one of the most cruel events in televised sport. So many horses get put down and injured after this race.

The course is overcrowded, the fences too high, and horses who shouldn't be are entered on the chance that they might win on a fluke, if enough others get trampled/injured on the way round.

I'll be avoiding it like the plague, and would be quite happy to see it banned.

I usually do have a little flutter on this race......


But I am not so sure now............you've pricked my concisnce(sp) so um...............

Since 1997, the three day meet at Aintree has claimed the lives of 29 horses.see here for more info. It's pretty upsetting :sad:

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/grandnational/

I don't like horse racing full stop. I have never thought of it as a sport. I think it is cruel.


I'm with you on this one Floops, I will not be watching or placing a bet!

Oh my gosh, I have just watched the video on the links that you put in Floops. How awful. Words cannot express how that made me feel.

I don't care for horseracing, never have, and have never even took any notice of the Grand National, but now, I firmly wish they would do away with the lot.

Sorry Tiggs, I didnt watch the videos, or I'd have put a warning up :cry: .

I just signed the petition

Will you be watching/betting/sweepstaking the Grand National?

Personally I think it's one of the most cruel events in televised sport. So many horses get put down and injured after this race.

The course is overcrowded, the fences too high, and horses who shouldn't be are entered on the chance that they might win on a fluke, if enough others get trampled/injured on the way round.

I'll be avoiding it like the plague, and would be quite happy to see it banned.

I couldnt have put it better myself Floops, I have been anti Grand National for about 16 years now........

A group of my friends go every year, and think that Im strange because I refused! What confuses me the most, is my friend who organises the outing, is a strict veggie who will not watch wild life programmes because she finds "the circle of life" disturbing and upsetting, yet she will go and place her money on a horse at Aintree! :glare:

I have signed the petition!

Edit - Oh and I have also just emailed the link to all the friends that are going this weekend :devil:

I had no idea. Thanks Floopy - I've signed.

I love horse racing, and I love Point to Points too - and I used to be a fan of the Grand National and most of the other steeplechases.

The Grand National is far too long and the jumps are far too high, one or the other would be OK, but coupled it is a race of endurance, strength and stamina for the horses that tests them too much. The year that 3 or 4 horses were killed was the end for me - and I don't think I have had a bet since.

Horse racing is in no way cruel ils - horses adore to gallop full out like they do in flat races - they just adore it, they love the thrill, they get all perky and flighty before races and they are just itching to go, go, go like the wind. They adore it.

Horses who are treated badly, horses that did not enjoy racing, horses that were not capable - just would not and could not race. Simple as that. Racehorses are some of the most looked after animals around, they have the best of everything, the best stabling, food, training, warmth, fun, they are generally always surrounded by other horses and loads of people who love and adore them.

Horses who are treated badly, horses that did not enjoy racing, horses that were not capable - just would not and could not race. Simple as that. Racehorses are some of the most looked after animals around, they have the best of everything, the best stabling, food, training, warmth, fun, they are generally always surrounded by other horses and loads of people who love and adore them.

The link that Floops posted actually contradicts this. In one part, it talks about tendons being burned in the legs or something like that.

Also, what about those horses that just don't cut it Flippy? The ones with promise, that end up failing. They are the ones that suffer, that are illegally destroyed because they didn't quite make the money the owners thought they would.

The link that Floops posted actually contradicts this. In one part, it talks about tendons being burned in the legs or something like that.

Also, what about those horses that just don't cut it Flippy? The ones with promise, that end up failing. They are the ones that suffer, that are illegally destroyed because they didn't quite make the money the owners thought they would.

I am not a horse expert Tiggs - but have spent most of my life surrounded by people who are, and in my experience the majority of horse owners/trainers/grooms etc are deeply devoted to their animals. And what you are talking about sounds like ignorance. Like any athlete's muscles and tendons they have to be in peak condition to race. Look at Paula Radcliffe for eg.

My sister has been a voluntary Horse Welfare Officer for about 20 years - and she has been allocated many cases of cruelty and neglect which are beyond belief. And in the 20 years of visiting injured, neglected and dying horses - not one of them have been a racehorse in the ownership of a race horse owner, or in the stud of a trainer etc.

And yes I have heard that horses are put down because they don't cut the mustard. If they are humanely killed - then it is not cruel, distasteful undoubtably - but not cruel. I doubt a horse can be killed illegally - how is it illegal other than the cruelty or neglect aspect. Shooting a horse to cause outright death is not illegal, unless it belongs to someone else. I may be contradicted here - but I cannot see how?

I ride, I love horses and I love horse racing. But I haven't supported this race for years now.

Racehorses do love the chase, but this really does ask too much of them.

Horse racing is in no way cruel ils - horses adore to gallop full out like they do in flat races - they just adore it, they love the thrill, they get all perky and flighty before races and they are just itching to go, go, go like the wind. They adore it.



Well I don't know much about horse racing flip but when I have watched on the TV, the riders have been whipping their horses to go faster and to me that looks cruel.

Will you be watching/betting/sweepstaking the Grand National?

Personally I think it's one of the most cruel events in televised sport. So many horses get put down and injured after this race.

The course is overcrowded, the fences too high, and horses who shouldn't be are entered on the chance that they might win on a fluke, if enough others get trampled/injured on the way round.

I'll be avoiding it like the plague, and would be quite happy to see it banned.

So you know little about it then i assume.
One shouldn't be swayed by what one reads in the papers.

my experience the majority of horse owners/trainers/grooms etc are deeply devoted to their animals.

I used to bet on the Grand National years ago but not anymore since the last horse I bet on had to be shot!

My feeling on this are; if the owners really loved their horses they wouldn't let them enter the race knowing that they could be seriously injured, or even worse, destroyed! I wouldn't risk my dog's life for ANYTHING but these people are in it for the money and love doesn't come into it IMO.

Joy :)

I am in two minds over this!

Nowadays the horses entered for the National are much better able to complete the course, years ago almost any horse could be entered almost on a whim, now they have to be shown on previous form to be able to have the ability, theoretically, to stay and jump the course.

No jockey on earth can 'make' a horse run or jump, no matter how much he uses the whip, but on the other hand, horses have a strong herd instinct and will tend to run on with the other horses even if they are none too keen on the jumps they are facing. A strong minded confident horse will say enough is enough, a weaker (mentally) will stay with the 'gang'.

Personally I feel that four and a half miles is too long a race. Also I think the National is trumped up too much as a spectacle.

I have followed NH racing for years but after Dessie retired I lost interest, mainly because of the type of horses now being bred and running. The old type of chaser was a far cry from the lightweight horses of today, most were bred to be chasers and had the robust conformation that the job needed, nowadays a lot of chasers are failed flat racers...add to that the small gene pool of the thoroughbred, they are inbred and overbred in most cases, and are running (on the flat) before their bones and ligaments can stand the strain. Most horses who break legs dont break them on falling, they break them on takeoff...and thats due in a lot of cases to previous tiny stress fractures that build up and are hard to see even on xrays. Much of these stress fractures are caused by working a young horse too hard.

Racing is big business and the wastage in two year olds and even yearlings is abysmal, flat racing in my mind is far worse than NH, but there are many owners and trainers who do really care, its the breeders in the main take my wraith! The Thoroughbred as a breed could do with some judicious outcrosses to strengthen the breed and widen the gene pool, but I cant see that happening. I also think that a lot more could be done for retired racehorses, look at how Hello Dandy ended up, there's a lot more like him, who, having earned many thousands, even millions in the cases of some flat racers, end unwanted, neglected or in an abattoir to feed our continental cousins.

I dont watch the Grand National, or the Cheltenham Gold Cup live anymore, I will watch re-runs if I know by the news there were no fatalities, there's nothing better than to watch horses who revel in racing and jumping, but nothing worse than seeing horses down and struggling. (I'm a softie)

So, after hearing that in this years National all the horses came home safe, I watched a re run, and must say that Hedgehunter was a superb example of a horse who really loves his job.

m

So you know little about it then i assume.

I do now, having read the information on the site I posted the link too.

One shouldn't be swayed by what one reads in the papers.

I have read nothing in the papers regarding the subject - I avoid the tabloid press.

Do you have an opinion on the subject which you'd like to share, as I'm not quite sure what your point is here?

Personally I think it's one of the most cruel events in televised sport. So many horses get put down and injured after this race.

The course is overcrowded, the fences too high, and horses who shouldn't be are entered on the chance that they might win on a fluke, if enough others get trampled/injured on the way round.



No one wants to see horses die.

But you seem to have had a ‘knee jerk’ reaction to a web site that falsely uses statistics from the three day Aintree meeting, 21 races in total, to justify banning the world’s greatest single race.

The first running of the Grand National was in 1839, and it has been run most years since, the exceptions being due to the two World Wars, the Foot and Mouth year, and the void race of 1993, due to Animal Activists.

A little search quite easily finds the fatalities for the Grand National race for shall we say the last six years?

2005 – None.

2004 – None.

2003 – 1. No one wants to see horses die.


2002 – 2.

2001 – None.

2000 – None.

Although not ideal, quite a different story from the carnage described on that web site?

So let’s stay on topic with the Grand National itself.

Considerable effort has been made over recent years to ensure the least amount of injury or fatality of all horses involved as is possible.

These include changes to the actual fences jumped, the welfare of the horses, before, and after the race, and limiting the amount of runners to a maximun of 40, 1929 saw 66 go to post.

AINTREE week acts as an annual siren for those who like to believe that the Grand National is cruel. Misinformation abounds, every equine injury on the Liverpool course is turned routinely into anti-National propaganda and the extremists at Animal Aid can be relied upon for a rhetorical rant such as this week’s plea to “confine the National to the dustbin of history”.


What many fail to appreciate, or choose to ignore, is that the most respected animal welfare body, the RSPCA, has been working closely with racing for 15 years and that its equine consultant, David Muir, has been responsible for significant safety developments in the sport.

Shock-absorbing whips and padded hurdles are among his initiatives, along with the changes to water jumps that have saved many horses — most recently, Azertyuiop at Cheltenham — from potentially serious injury.

For Muir, as for the Jockey Club’s veterinary team, this is the most scrutinised week of the year but he has the background to cope. Muir witnessed the National at close quarters long before his eight years in this job. “For 20 years, I was in charge of the Lancashire Constabulary Mounted Branch,” he said. “We did duty each year at Aintree and I looked at racing from a completely different angle, but the things I saw stayed with me. “I used to see horses come in with their bellies badly scratched from the fences — you certainly wouldn’t see that now. During my time, Aintree has reacted to constructive criticism and made the course more forgiving without losing the ethos of the race. I’m not saying everything is right with racing but it does address the concerns we raise.”

GRAND NATIONAL ENTRY REVIEW PANEL
Published: 27 January 1999

The composition and objectives of the Jockey Club’s Grand National Entry Review Panel were confirmed today.

The setting up of an advisory panel to review entries on the basis of form and suitability for the race was one of the key recommendations of the Jockey Club’s report into the 1998 Martell Grand National.

The five person panel will be chaired by Chris Collins, supported by Dick Saunders and Tim Forster. The panel is completed by Phil Smith (Senior Jumps Handicapper) and Nigel Macfarlane (Secretary to the Disciplinary Committee).

The objective of the panel when reviewing Martell Grand National entries will be to look after the welfare of horses and safety of jockeys.

Chris Collins, chairman of the panel said: "All entries will be subject to an initial review. This will be based on performance in recent races, particularly where a horse has not completed the course. Subsequent form will also be monitored. The trainer of a horse giving cause for concern will be invited to express his or her views

"If following the second forfeit stage in March the panel concludes that an intended runner is not suitable, it will recommend to a quorum of Jockey Club Stewards that the entry in question is voided with the entry money returned.


Jockey Club officials have dismissed claims from campaign group Animal Aid criticising the treatment of horses.


Three horses died at the Cheltenham Festival and with the Grand National meeting at Aintree looming, more animal rights protests are expected.

But the Jockey Club's senior vet Dr Peter Webbon said: "No issue has a higher priority for the Jockey Club than the welfare of the horse.

"We constantly review our safety and welfare standards and discuss matters with recognised welfare bodies such as the RSPCA and the International League for the Protection of Horses." He criticised the Animal Aid report, referring to the group as "an anti-horseracing lobby".

Liverpool, UK - 2 April 2004: Research at the University of Liverpool into the Grand National has identified a number of factors affecting successful completion of the world-famous steeplechase.


The research, funded by Aintree Racecourse and part of a larger study of National Hunt racing, identifies several factors that indicate whether a horse is likely to make the finish and will lead to safety improvements in jump racing for both jockeys and racehorses.
Dr Chris Proudman, Senior Lecturer in Equine Surgery, said: "Our research suggests that improved schooling over National-type fences or qualifying races over the Grand National course may improve completion rates and decrease the risk of horses falling.
"We are pleased to have been able to help Aintree evaluate factors that are likely to improve completion rates around this unique racecourse. We will continue to work with the industry to use this information to safeguard the welfare of horses."



Like all British institutions, the Grand National provokes passionate feelings both for and against the event.

Just as the Boat Race attracts cries of elitism and the last night of the Proms arouses accusations of unhealthy jingoism, there are those who equate the Grand National with gross cruelty to animals. Although around 15 times as many horses are killed each year on Britain's roads as on the racecourse, horse racing has long been a target of animal rights activists.


Over the last 20 years Aintree, in conjunction with the racing authorities, has made many modifications to the Grand National course, with a view to making it safer for the participants. These include alterations to the fences and the upkeep of the ground and the improvement of medical and veterinary facilities.


The RSPCA itself has taken a more conciliatory line.

"Any death of a horse is unacceptable as far as we are concerned but we are not campaigning to have the National banned," said RSPCA press officer Ros Varnes.

Rather the charity is seeking to find ways of minimising the risk to horses.

Ahead of last year's race the RSPCA unveiled a three-year research programme to analyse the causes of racehorse fatalities and injuries.

David Muir, the charity's equine consultant said: "The RSPCA is extremely concerned about the number of racehorses which die or are injured every year. "Together with the racing industry, we are doing all we can to improve safety standards and reduce the risk of injuries and fatalities in horseracing."

Links:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,379-1557840,00.html
http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/horse_racing/4371439.stm
http://www.thejockeyclub.co.uk/news/news_display.php?URN=20&searchText=
http://www.liv.ac.uk/newsroom/press_releases/2004/04/grand_national.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/in_depth/2001/grand_national/1220128.stm

I ride, I love horses and I love horse racing. But I haven't supported this race for years now.

Racehorses do love the chase, but this really does ask too much of them.

This is exactly how I feel too. I used to bet on it until one year where it seemed like lots of horses fell and then I actually thought about it and have nevre bet on it or watched it since. I still have the occasional bet on a flat race though.