I'm thinking of buying (and trying to restore) an old classic car. This might be an absolutely crazy idea, since I have little experience of car maintenance (I can do a basic service, but that's it). I do however have a lot of enthusiasm, and a helpful friend who's an engineer.

I have my eye on a particular car at the moment. It's a 1976 Daimler. I haven't seen it 'in the metal' yet, but from the photo and the description, it will certainly need some TLC:

http://www.jagcentre.com/car_files/s2daimler_side.jpg
(Sorry that's a bit big.)

The seller wants £395 for it (which is a little high, I think). He also has quite a few other Jags around in various states of repair, and various ages.

The thought of owning and restoring such a potentially lovely car is very appealing (and for relatively little money), but I'm not sure if it might turn out to be a disastrous money pit. Ideally, I'd like to be able to sell it on for a modest profit (having put in hours of work, I think that would be fair :) ) but I don't know if that's being totally unrealistic.

Has anyone any advice? Are you about, Secrets? Any thoughts?

Blinky - as you probably know I know zero about cars. However, I have experience as a wife of classic car enthusiast.

Mr F 'found' the shell of a series 1 Landrover [I think 1947] - and started to rebuild it. It took about 5 years and lord knows how much money, sounds simple enough. But I think a lot of the time went on sourcing parts - so he spent a fortune on trawling round scrap yards, putting ads in papers etc [pre-internet].

It was a labour of love - and when it was finished it was valued at something like 3,000GBP - not a lot for all the work and effort he put into it. But it was a work horse and not neccesarily a desirable sports type classic car.

He eventually sold it about 10 years later for not much more than its original valuation.

The But comes in here - whilst we owned it - we would take it to Vintage Car rallies and ride around the farm it in - and that was the fun part of it - so the fun part certainly outweighed any financial value.

It very much depends on what your end plan is?? If it is purely financial gain [which I doubt] then forget it!

If it is to enjoy the process, enjoy the chase, enjoy the challenge and the end product for what it is a beaut of a classic car - then go for it!!

I am still after the 'perfect' classic car for me too - Mr F is still searching on ebay and the papers for the 'one' - it hasn't happened yet - but one day I wil get it!!

My Dad does this, generally with much older cars and turns them into hot rods. His method is avoiding rust as it's expensive and time consuming. His preferred method is to import cars from drier countries - often cheaper than you think.

Your only intention shoudl be to do it for the love, because with rustbuckets like that, it will cost you a LOT more to restore than you'll be able to raise for it. Have a look at magazines like practical classics and custom car for an indication of how much it's worth when lovingly restored - you might be surprised.

Join an owners club and go to swop meets, they're an invaluable resource of old bits - wings, chrome bits etc etc

Looking at that car in particular, though I can see why you'd want it - you should be able to get much better examples for much less money. Check out the auto trader under £500 section - car club magazines fvor unfinished projects are a good idea too.

You've not just got the body work to contend with, the wheels will need dipping to get them shiny again, there is at least one hub missing on the rear wheel, the chrome will need dipping to restore, the grill, and so on...!

You'd need to strip that right back, replace the really rusty bits with either sheet metal or a new panel and then make it all smooth again ready for priming.

Don't forget the door handles, the interior, the chassis which will probably be on it's way out and then there is the engine!!! I once spent a week with my Dad stripping an engine piece by piece, washing it in parafin, painting it with engine paint and then reassembling - he knew what he was doing, it looked to me like a complete mess and I had no clue where the bits went.

Why not try something a bit more modest (and I don't mean the type of car - look for a less rusty one!!) for your first project to see if you even enjoy doing it! It can be very satisfying but it's a lot of hard work.

Oh, and don't forget the electrics, they're usually knackered in a car that age, and so a new wiring loom will need to be installed - if you can't get exactly the same engine (chances are it's cheaper to just replace it), then you have to modify the loom and that is boggling!!

I've probably forgotten loads of things, but that's a nice start. The more people you talk to the better, find your niche, offer your service to your new car buddies and hope others do it in return!

I adore classic cars and would kill to own one myself.

My husband used to buy classics to do up and sell - but as Flippy said, it really is a labour of love as parts arent easy to find, and they normally cost a small mortgage to buy :wink2: BUT, the end result is worth all the hassle and heartache (and empty wallet). Just to see a shining car, that you have restored with your bare hands is a sight to behold.

Good luck with it Blink. I think if you have the dedication, the know how (or at least someone who can give you pointers) and the enthusiasm you should go for it. It wont make you rich, but it will make you smile :)

That's a lot of very sensible advice. Thank you folks! If I go to have a look at this car, I'll also take a look at other vehicles too. I was certainly concerned by the signs of rust in the photo, and I suspect it might not be enough just to fill the holes...

I was also thinking of offering the bloke more like £50 than £400...

I'll have a look at those mags you suggest, whim. I'm doing a lot of reading up at the moment (especially about the Jaguar XJ series). I'm sure it's better to go into a venture like this, well-informed.

I just wonder: has EVERY classic car had more spent on it than it's worth? If it's not possible to make a profit doing up your own car, I wonder if it's possible to make a profit doing up cars for other people?

Yeah, I'm not sure I want to be a solicitor for the rest of my life. :D

I don't understand the fascination myself, for me a car is something to get me, the kids and their stuff from a to b and as long as it is big enough for what that and starts 1st time, everytime, I am happy!

But I know you love your cars Blink, so good luck with your quest!

I just wonder: has EVERY classic car had more spent on it than it's worth? If it's not possible to make a profit doing up your own car, I wonder if it's possible to make a profit doing up cars for other people?

Yeah, I'm not sure I want to be a solicitor for the rest of my life. :D

Unless you find one that's been sat in a barn for 30 years then chances are you haven't a hope of making a profit. The specialist firms that do it will roll their own panels and so on, so the cost is reduced greatly.

Your best hope of making any money is to do it with fiberglass but the traditionalists don't like that - you'd have to build street rods or hot rods to make money from that, but then again, your market is limited.

If you're going to do it, learn how to weld, learn how to fabricate metal into useable panels and buy an old bath so you can do the chrome dipping yourself!!

Hope you succeeed, being a fitter is one of the most rewarding jobs I can think of (though perhaps because my Dad has talked of nothing else for my lifetime), but then I'm far too lazy far that. Besides, I might get my fingernails dirty :blush:

Yeah, I might have the same problem: I need to overcome a serious aversion to dirt. But I do have my tub of Swarfega at the ready!!!

lol we used to use that a lot, it's horrid!

Just one more thing occured, he did a triumph herald recently, the body was knackered but the chassis, running gear etc was all okay, so he popped the rivest and catches (yeah, it was clipped to the body!) and bought one for £20 from the scrap yard which he slotted on top. A quick respray and he made a little on that for a change - he is a hobbyist though.

I don't understand the fascination myself, for me a car is something to get me, the kids and their stuff from a to b and as long as it is big enough for what that and starts 1st time, everytime, I am happy!

But I know you love your cars Blink, so good luck with your quest!
I'm with you ILS!

My brother spent about four years working on a car once, and still didn't finish it. He had to give up in the end - I think it had become more of a chore than a hobby.

My Uncle on the other hand, used to do up cars quite often and seemed to really enjoy it, but I suppose it depends on how much time you've got.

I just wonder: has EVERY classic car had more spent on it than it's worth? If it's not possible to make a profit doing up your own car, I wonder if it's possible to make a profit doing up cars for other people?

. :D

Blinkus - a school friend of Tiddles Dad - is a collector of vintage mercedes benz cars. He has in his possession a car built by Benz before they became Mercedes Benz - there are only 3 in the world, he has done nothing to it - and bought it in or from Australia for a small fortune I hasten to add [about 10K]. He has already been offered over 1 mill for it!! So in answer to your question - 'it depends'!!!

And I doubt there is a profit Blink - unless you charge parts and labour for each bit - and quite honestly most classic car enthusiast would or will do the work themselves!!

Except me - if I were a widow - which I am not - but if I were I would want a man to do it for me, and I would pay big bucks. But I am few and far between Blinky, just like my elusive classic car!!

Mr F has just peeped at the photo Blink and he says that the wheel arches are trouble and the bottom of the door skins are a pain in the butt!!

He says the Mk 10 Jag would be a far better project - because the value when Mk 10 is done is far higher than the value of the Daimler you are looking at!! [with similar outlay]. That is a blokes POV in terms of value - but I suppose it has to be bourn in mind.

IMO - I like the look of the Daimler Blinky - but I have to err on the side of hubby who knows his stuff! I know that is not much help!!

Oh and btw - I would personally go for an eType - you reccomended one to me ages ago - go with you instinct!! LOL!!

So the consensus among those with experience, is (a) nice idea, but probably this is the wrong car and (b) don't hold out the slightest hope of making any money doing this.

Flip, not sure which car Mr F is talking about. I have never heard of a Mk 10 Jag - does he mean a Mark 1? I'm quite keen on a XJ-based model, but that's purely because I have discovered a LOT of information about working on them, which would make them good for a first (learning) project.

There is a great deal of welding to be done on that car - i have been unfortunate enough to have had to do similar in the past.

Restoration is a long and time consuming thing, even if you have the facilities to do it.With respect Blink, i would suggest that you would find yourself lacking in expertise.
Where would you keep it, have you the room in your garage?
Have you ever prepared a car for a respray, done, any welding, sprayed a car before?
If you have to pay someone else for any of these it will all add up.
To be honest i wouldn't want to devote the time it would need to properly restore that car.

I would say you've got great advice so far...and as has been said, unless you pick your model verrrrry carefully indeed, you wont make much if anything at all from such a project.

Personally, I would ditch the Daimler, there are certainly better examples around...yep go for an E Type ...always desirable, or a D Type, if you can find one.

If you don't have a genuine love of the model then I suspect you will get bored very quickly! restorations are a labour of love and the gain is personal satisfaction rather than monetary profit.

I have restored two Opel Manta coupes, one to original concours the other as a 3L Monza powered beast :)...purely because I love 'em. At the time they were not either rare or classics, but they are fast becoming very collectible now, especially the 2L Berlinettas.

If I get the time and money my next one (if I can resist another Manta) would be an Audi 100 S coupe.

Having said that, restoration is hugely enjoyable, if you have the time, space and enthusiasm.
Joining a model related club will be an invaluable font of advice, parts and useful contacts, and, for a first time restoration project, I would choose a car in much better condition than the Daimler...start conservatively, gain confidence, then go for the biggie challenge!
Good luck
M

There is a great deal of welding to be done on that carI think you're right. Perhaps the wrong car to start off with. I have done some welding in the past.

I burnt my eyes... :blush:

With respect Blink, i would suggest that you would find yourself lacking in expertise.You're totally right. There are some things I could do, but most things I couldn't, yet. But I do have a friend who's an engineer and a hobbyist spanner who very much wants to be in on the project, and I'm very eager to learn! (I'd much rather be a mechanic than a solicitor, I think! :D )

Where would you keep it, have you the room in your garage?Indeed I do. Realise that's essential.

Have you ever prepared a car for a respray, done, any welding, sprayed a car before?No, yes (see above - disastrous), no. :blush:

If you have to pay someone else for any of these it will all add up.I do know an excellent (and cheap) bodyshop locally. But as you're implying, it might not be a good idea to throw a lot of money at a rust bucket.

To be honest i wouldn't want to devote the time it would need to properly restore that car.Is there something better I could start with?

go for an E Type ...always desirableMuch as I'd love to, I can't afford a good example, and an fair example in need of TLC would be VERY hard to come by, I would have thought. Don't want to spend more than a few hundred on buying the car really.

If you don't have a genuine love of the model then I suspect you will get bored very quickly!I do like the XJ series. Another possibility would be any Lotus 7 type car, but I haven't tried looking for any old examples as yet.

I have restored two Opel Manta coupes, one to original concoursBlimey - respect!

the other as a 3L Monza powered beastAnd again!

my next one (if I can resist another Manta) would be an Audi 100 S coupe.Oh yes - yummy!

for a first time restoration project, I would choose a car in much better condition than the DaimlerOk. You do know you're talking me over my budget, don't you? :D

Blink...I didn't say how LONG those cars took me :) First one took over 2 years, estimated about 6 months...and was totalled by a drunk driver 3 days after its final glorious respray! I lost a LOT of money on that, insurers take a very dim view of restorations' values.

Ebay can be an interesting source, if not of cars, of contacts...and what some classic models are fetching on the market eg

http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQsassZghQ5fspecialistQ5fcars

I would go for something structurally sound that needed a lot of cosmetics first, and I would be glued to the Wheeler-Dealers prog on Home & Leisure its amazing what you can pick up from watching the amazing Ed. :)

I was lucky in that my friend's dad has a small coach firm, and is a car nut, so plenty of garage space and access to more specialist tools (and expertise)were on offer.

Have fun looking and let us know when you find your ideal car. It would make a great thread!

M

let us know when you find your ideal car.Well I'm not entirely sure it's ideal, but I've bought one.

It's an 1983 4.2 litre Jaguar XJ6. Hardly been used. Bodywork is not as bad as it could be. 44,000 miles on the clock. It cost me £150!

Here she is:

http://ellis.dyndns.biz/rob/A647_SNV/front.JPGhttp://ellis.dyndns.biz/rob/A647_SNV/front_side.JPG
http://ellis.dyndns.biz/rob/A647_SNV/interior.JPGhttp://ellis.dyndns.biz/rob/A647_SNV/rear_side.JPG

With a friend, we're now giving her a reasonably thorough "working over". I've started on the "biscuit"-coloured leather. We changed the plugs and the air filter at the weekend. Just starting with the simple service items first, then we'll take her for a pre-MoT test, to see what else needs doing to make her roadworthy. (Last MoT expired a month ago, and she's hardly been used since, so hopefully not too much!)

She could probably do with a respray, but we'll start with the simple stuff first and maybe work up, if it seems financially worthwhile (which is perhaps unlikely with this car). Rust is really not bad for a Jag from this era.

Oh many happy hours pottering! (Once my fatherly duties have been fulfilled, naturally.)

I'm don't know much about cars, Blink, but that looks like a corker.
Hope you have many an hour whiling away under the bonnet.

Rust is really not bad for a Jag from this era.


1983 is now an era for classic cars.

I feel old.:cry:

Lol...looks like you got a beaut for the price, especially with such low mileage!

I'm pretty sure that the engine will be sound, those plants are fairly solid, and...parts should be easy to come across. Crikey, 4.2...my mouth is watering! about 260 horses under that sleek bonnet! Better than the previous bored-out models too.

Is it the electronically fuel injected model, I'm guessing it is? The year is good bodywise, build quality was much improved then. Before this model came out Jags were veritable rotboxes....some later models were too.

Have fun, I would be most interested to see how this project progresses.

£150...YOU GOT A BARGAIN!


M

PS.

Here is my Beautiful Red Beast...after many months work! I was just offf to a Yorkshire Car Club rally.

http://artz.homestead.com/The_Red_Beast.jpg

Its an old photo, but my gawd was I proud of that car...No, I was in lurrrve with it! I wish I had taken some 'before' pics.

I just love the lines of the Manta, and they are a joy to drive, no power steering, heavy clutch and a total pain in ice or snow, but a real drivers car with no fancy crap!

I want another one! oh deary me, Ive gone all emotional!

M

Well done Blink, I hope you have many happy hours with your new toy :thumbsup:

Lol Blinky - its a gorgeous car and i hope you really enjoy doing her up. Well done you :)

have fun with it Blink. By the way there is such a thing as a Mk 10 Jag, they're big but very fast - I was once a passenger in one with 8 people piled in and despite the weight it was carrying it went like a rocket up Marylebone High Street.

Lol...looks like you got a beaut for the price, especially with such low mileage!Aye, and really as far as we can tell, the mileage is totally genuine. The signs of wear and tear that you'd expect with a higher mileage car are not there. Just evidence of exposure to the elements.

I'm pretty sure that the engine will be soundI do hope you're right! There's evidence of water getting into the engine, even though it has allegedly had a new gasket. We're going to look carefully at that issue. That said, head gasket change is considered a routine service item on these hot engines! Oh and my friend stripped one of the threads when changing the plugs - major bummer. Any learned advice? (The plug is still seated reasonably well, but I'm not completely confident it will remain so...)

parts should be easy to come across.I believe so!

Crikey, 4.2...my mouth is watering! about 260 horses under that sleek bonnet!I wish! I think it's closer to 200, alas. I guess the 12 cylinder 5.4 litre engines were more like 260.

Don't know if we'll bother with this engine, but I understand that a lot of work can be done improving the engine, if you've a mind to it. Exhaust side is apparently more than adequate, but there can be gains made on the inlet side, and in compression, etc.

Is it the electronically fuel injected model, I'm guessing it is?Yeah, I think all of the Series 3s were injected.

The year is good bodywise, build quality was much improved then.Still slightly dodgy British Leyland steel though...

Have fun, I would be most interested to see how this project progresses.I will certainly post updates. :)

£150...YOU GOT A BARGAIN!I hope so!

I was in lurrrve with it! I wish I had taken some 'before' pics.Yes, we've done this. Although they may not prove to be all that interesting if we don't respray and rechrome.

there is such a thing as a Mk 10 JagI eventually stumbled across them in my research - although where I've read of them, they've been called "Mark X". It might be something to work up to perhaps (although I'd really like a Mark 2). The beauty of the Series 3 is that it shouldn't be too hard a car to start with and learn on.

It's already proving to be a lot of fun. In healthily small, non-marriage-threatening doses. :laugh:

my friend stripped one of the threads when changing the plugs - major bummer. Any learned advice?

Yup - get ready to part with £350.

Although I've never rebuilt a classic car or have any desire to do so, this is an interesting thread. I've known people who do like to dabble in restoration and they say the same as everyone else has, it's for love not money.

That looks like a real corker Blink. Sounds like you've struck lucky and I'm sure you'll have great fun/frustration/heartache/debts bringing her back to her original condition. :)

So far the expenses haven't been high at all. But I'm thinking that whatever it is that's preventing the engine from revving over 3000 RPM may well prove to be expensive...

(My first thought is perhaps a new coil.)






(Don't want her having a baby Jag, do we?)

Yup - get ready to part with £350.
Fortunately having now spoken with my excellent-but-cheap mechanic, he seems to think that the problem can be solved relatively easily. He can drill out and rebore & rethread the hole, no problem. Hooray!

So how is the renovation going Blink?

I managed to work out how to get these photo's off my ancient mobile just for you.
It's an Austin Healey 3000 mk2 that i renovated for our landlord.
Apparently we are going to go through his collection one at a time - he wants 35k+ for this one if you are interested?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/secrets33/Austinhealey.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/secrets33/austinhealey3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/secrets33/austinhealey2.jpg

£35k? Yikes. I could get me a Monaro VXR for that... The renovation has been on hold for a few weeks. My friend's out of the country, and I've had a busy few weekends, what with James coming home for visits etc.

Main question at the moment is whether to take the plunge and get a respray...

I knew there was something i got wrong - it's a mark3 - that is why it is worth so much.:blush:

Go on Blink you know you want a respray.

Apparently we might be getting his Lanchester in before the end of the year
and that one is worth around 250k.

http://eis.bris.ac.uk/~ccmjs/lanchester.jpg