Just been listening to the radio and the Septics (yanks) are spouting on how this is thier Tsunami.................FFS.......

Where are the 250,000 dead

They have or could have insurance

They are the richest country in the world

it's only a bit of wind and water...are they made of salt??


editted to add

THEY KNEW IT WAS ####ing COMING


editted to add

BUILD ON HIGHER GROUND YOU ####WITS


do you see I'm a little put out?!?!


Mind you...anything with a womans name thats as wet and windy and has a hole 50km wide should be avoided.....!!

Wow Slips - are you a bit peeved per chance??

I hear what you are saying, loud and clear, and personally I cannot make a comparison between the Boxing Day Tsunami and Katrina. Are you saying that the Americans are comparing it to the Asian Tsunami?? If so they will know themselves that saying things like that are not going to curry favour with many people - I suspect it is a media thing - surely??

I have a very good friend who married an American lady, they live on the side of a lake 25 miles from the centre of New Orleans. I am waiting to hear from him to gauge the damage for real - and I have no doubt that there will be damage.

But it sure looks like a centralised massive damaged area - if the news reports are aything to go by. I wonder could msgirl shed anymore light on the scale of the damage - she is a southern belle, and will have more up to date accurate knowledge than the media stories.

It looks terrrible and I don't envy the people of Louisiana or surrounding states - and I hope they get stuff back to normal relatively quickly. But there is no way that this disaster is anywhere near as bad as the Asian Tsunami, and I agree Slipper that the US has billions at its disposal for rebuilding unlike the poorer Asian countries.

I agre and the same thought went through my mind when I saw the news this morning. They will be able to rebuild, and claim insurance, they haven't had their whole family wiped out. I think at the last count there was around 250 dead, which is still devestating but nothing compared to the Asian Tsunami.

What I don't get is why did people stay? They knew this was coming for days. If I lived there I would have left the area in the days running up to it.

I certainly will not be giving any aid to the Disaster Fund for this!

I have just seen the headline in todays paper which read "This is their tsunami" and a picture of New Orleans submerged in water. And yes, I thought the same thing - how can they even compare this to the Asian tsunami on Boxing Day?
I have no doubt that Hurricane Katrina has devasted countless people and the death toll is still terrible - but no way near that of the Asian tsunami.
I would be intrested to hear msgirl's views on this since she experienced the hurricane first hand.

I have just seen the headline in todays paper which read "This is their tsunami" and a picture of New Orleans submerged in water. And yes, I thought the same thing - how can they even compare this to the Asian tsunami on Boxing Day?.

But by 'they' I guess you mean whoever writes the news headlines - and it's not just the American media who exaggerate is it, we do the same here all the time for dramatic impact. I think you have to make allowances for 'poetic licence'.

Well, I've read what has been said and I agree. People know for up to a week to evacuate when these storms come. People have always built shore and always will I suppose. A lot of the people stay to ride it out b/c they 1) don't think it'll be that bad 2) they think they have to be with their belongings so no one loots them 3) some are just CRAZY. I know people are devastated and will still don't know all of the figures, but live goes on. Some whole families were killed though in Biloxi, albeit to not leaving WATERFRONT flats to go to higher ground. I think it's a tad overly dramatic to compare it to the tsumani that hit Asia, it is a life altering thing for everyone here though and I suppose they have nothing to compare it to. Bear in mind that New Orleans hasn't flooded in about 300 yrs. due to the levee system the French built on the North and South sides to keep out the Mississippi River and Lake Ponchatrain. Right now they are trying to completly and utterly evacuate New Orleans because of the flooding and imminent disease and dangers. The Coast of MS is 90% devestated. All the property that was up to 6-8 blocks of the beachfront is GONE. It will be a long arduous task but these people will rebuild with the aid of insurance money, federal emergency money, grants, etc. Something the poor people of Asia did not have. Our Governor, Hailey Barbour is a drama queen about a lot of things. I've been to budget town hall meetings where he would make you think he and his family were living on a shoe-string budget while the rest of us lived the high life. Again, I'm sorry for the situation, I really am but we have people in our town that evacuated from N.O. b/c they KNEW it would be the POTENTIAL for this situation. So there's always going to be the question..."Why didn't you just leave/evacuate/not live there/build further inland....etc". I guess that's my sermon for the day guys. xo msgirl

Good thread title, Mr Comfyshoe. Did you make that up?

it's only a bit of wind and water...are they made of salt??
!

Having seen the latest news footage of the devastation I think that's like saying the tsunami was just a little wave. 80% of a major city underwater is a real catastrophe.

I think the comparison with the tsunami was a resonable one in that both would have been considered the worst natural disater to hit the country in question.

I certainly will not be giving any aid to the Disaster Fund for this!

Is there going to be a 'fund' ???

This is going off tangent, and might make me seem like a hard cow - but we have been told recently not to hold back and say what we feel.

I went into the HSBC recently, and there was a sign up for people to donate to the London bombing on 7/7. It was from Ken Livingstone i think. But what went through my mind was .... why ? Why do we, the masses, have to give money to get London back on its feet ? Surely the government have so much money that it doesnt need us, the general public to donate, i mean, we (i.e. the government) are permanently giving aid to other countries to help them, so we must have a very large kitty that can be used on our own country if we are in need.

The Tsunami is a totally different kettle of fish. They need our help and our money - but why cant the government look after our own when they give so much money away on a bi yearly basis ?

My word....for once a septic and I agree....has the world stopped spinning??

SF...The first time I heard the comparison was in an interview with a rather loud local who was spouting off to a radio (BBC) journo....

Re the scale of the damage I totally accept that the damage is devistating to most, life-changing to many and catasrophic to some but as we all know...there was a warning, it happens in that part of the world (this is the 11th this year), the city is below sea/river/lake level.

A question I would like to return to is about those who stayed. A rep for the city said that "it's cos them is poor (boy)"....hang on...so the authorities couldn't find some buses/planes/boats to get people out before it hit?!? Yet they can find some kind of transport now when the infrastructure is bu@@ered!! How does that work??

As MSgirl says, this is the first major flood in 300yrs...


One other thought theough - Levee system built by the French - Guess the Yanks will be sueing France for not adequately protecting the city and its populous now???

Saw in the papers today that thousands have been killed as opposed to the 250 first stated. America may well be one of the richest countries and they well be insured but surely this does not detract from the suffering from what are mostly the poorest in their society.

It still isn't the same as 250,000 is it?!?!

Saw in the papers today that thousands have been killed as opposed to the 250 first stated. America may well be one of the richest countries and they well be insured but surely this does not detract from the suffering from what are mostly the poorest in their society.

That's true but was the attitude of those evacuating..."Not gotta car....hope you can swim then" Perhaps they will look within and consider HOW they dealt with the poorer members of their community?!?




Oh Right...Fat Chance....More like when will Mackie-D's be back open and who's now got the stock of cheap TV's/DVD's/Hi-Fi's etc...

Slipper, I don't know what 'Yank' weed in your cornflakes but I don't think the U.S. will be sueing the French over the levee system. Right now there are people dropping like flies all around the cities and still the bodies no one has rescued. It won't be of the Tsunami proportions but I think it will get to 9/11 totals. The national and local government are more prepared to go into a war on the other side of the world than help right where they are needed. As images come accross CNN, MSNBC, etc., it is AWFUL that these people are stuck in a cesspool of debris, corpses, gasoline, oil, sewer, etc. Everyone is reporting the grimmest of grim trying to get some action taken in N.O. b/c the elderly and young children/babies are dehydrated and the National Guard has disappeared. I don't know who all is to blame: the people b/c they are poor and couldn't get out?? the government for not stepping up to help them?? the government for lollygagging right now?? There's too many fingers to point and too much blame to be laid. Instead people should focus on how to stop the dying. I have family inland from the Coast that I have not been able to get in touch with since Monday...I'm sick with worry over that. Then to hear of all the devastation and horror of the Coast and N.O. I don't know what's going to happen, how long it will take or any of the like. I do know that armchair moderating isn't getting anybody anywhere.

It still isn't the same as 250,000 is it?!?!
Is 250,000 now the official yardstick for concern?

It's the Beslan massacre anniversary. But then again there were only 300-odd killed there. Whiny gits. Or that stampede in Baghdad - only one 250th of a tsunami. Hardly registers really.

Surely you could have come up with something more positive to say?

You know i got up this morning and the electric meter was empty, i thought about the fish tank, the fridge and deep freeze, my morning coffee, and not being able to watch the news or log on.
Very annoying.
I got the electric card, jumped into the car and went and got some - problem solved!
Then when the news came on, and i browsed a little, i was so glad that that was all i had to worry about.

You cannot help but feel for those unfortunate enough to be caught up in this terrible tradgedy, if they are lucky enough to still be alive, what does the future hold for them?
You can blame 'Global Wierding' for this, but you also must say that they were let down by their government, there will be recriminations later.

The Levee's failed to stop the floods, but could more have been done to prevent that?
Yes!

The damage caused by a hurricane like Katrina is almost always called a natural disaster. But it is also unnatural, in the sense that much of it is self-inflicted. New Orleans is no exception, and while the city has been spared a direct hit from the storm, its politicians and planners must rethink the bad policies that contributed to the city's vulnerability.

An immediate priority is for the Senate to restore some $70 million that the House, in a singular act of poor timing, slashed from the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for the New Orleans district. The cuts could hurt the corps' ability to rebuild levees protecting the city. Meanwhile, the city itself must attend to a pumping system that is much in need of upgrading.

At the same time, there must also be an honest recognition of the fact that no amount of engineering - levees, sea walls, pumping systems, satellite tracking systems - can fully bring nature to heel. Indeed, the evidence is indisputable that systematic levee-building along the Mississippi upstream of New Orleans has blocked much of the natural flow of silt into the delta. That, in turn, has caused the delta to subside and made the city and its environs even more vulnerable to the waters of the Gulf of Mexico, which itself has been rising.
Upstream levee-building has also had the effect of turning a sluggish river into a fire hose, helping to destroy marshes and barrier islands that once provided some protection. The steady destruction of coastal wetlands by residential development and years of oil and gas drilling hasn't helped much either. The combination of subsiding land and rising seas has put the Mississippi Delta about three feet lower than it was 100 years ago.

All this, in turn, lends urgency to plans proposed by Louisiana politicians to restore natural hurricane protections by diverting water and silt from the river to coastal marshes and wetlands, and by rebuilding barrier islands. The effort is expected to take more than 40 years and cost an estimated $14 billion, substantially more than the $8 billion Everglades restoration project.

The administration budgeted $20 million for the project this year, mainly for the necessary planning studies. A lot more than that is going to be needed. New Orleans must learn to take care of nature if it hopes to survive it.

Was their any inkling that this could happen?
Yes.

Their have been numerous warnings that this was a possibility.
Only last year in National Geographic, it was stated that a direct hurricane hit on New Orleans was an accident waiting to happen.

The stories that are heard or read of people's losses and heartbreak, are very sad, the fact that they are still suffering is unthinkable - but they are!
Their government has let them down in their hour of need, and there is no excuse for that.
Talk of re-building is pointless, it will happen, but it will never be the same.
The Big Easy will never be so big again - and it will not be easy.
The history will remain by word of mouth only, for the real remains are gone for good.
If my memory serves me well New Orleans had the largest density of art galleries next to New York. They are as we speak under as much as thirty foot of stinking water. The whole world has lost something irreplaceable there.

Estimates of the amount of money needed to re build are as high as $100 Billion dollars - half as much as has already been wasted in Iraq - it puts things into perspective doesn't it?

A wife's desperate journey with her husband's corpse
Katrina leaves no one to deal with the dead

Wednesday, August 31, 2005; Posted: 12:21 p.m. EDT (16:21 GMT)

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (AP) -- When Xavier Bowie died in a flooded New Orleans neighborhood, his wife did the best she could in a city so preoccupied with saving the living that no one can deal with the dead.

She wrapped his body in a sheet, laid him on a makeshift bier of plywood boards, with a little help, and floated him down to the main road.

For more than an hour, Evelyn Turner waited along Rampart Street outside the French Quarter, her husband's body resting on the grassy median as car after car passed, their wakes threatening to wash over the corpse.

"This is ridiculous," Turner, 54, said as she sobbed into a dirty washcloth.

Bowie, 57, a truck driver who had been with Turner for 16 years, had advanced lung cancer and could not be easily moved. When Turner could find no one to take them out of the city, she decided to stay home and hoped the storm would spare them.

"I've got electric and stuff right now," Turner told herself. "I can keep going. I've got oxygen. I can keep going."

But Hurricane Katrina left her neighborhood under several feet of water. By Tuesday, with no phone and only a small tank of oxygen left, Turner slogged out into the streets for help.

By the time she got back, Bowie had died.

Grief-stricken, Turner walked 2 miles to a neighborhood police precinct and asked someone to come get the body. An officer told her a truck would be along.

When more than an hour passed, she started down the road again. When she got to the station this time, there were no more promises.

"There's nothing we can do right now," an officer said. "We don't have any equipment."

"So what I'm supposed to do? Sit with the body until you get somebody?" Turner asked.

"Unfortunately, yeah," the officer replied. "That's the only option I can give you. Because we have no way of getting to him."

With hundreds, if not thousands, of residents still stuck on roofs and in attics across the city, officials have concentrated on saving survivors of Katrina and floodwaters. "We're not even dealing with dead bodies," New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said Tuesday.

When Turner got back to the corpse, she collapsed onto the plywood sheets and wept.

Curtis Miller, a former city employee, helped float the body down the road, hoping a passing military truck would pick Bowie up. He was disgusted.

"I'm hurt to my heart with this," the grizzled man said. "To see the city stoop this low. It shouldn't be, mister. It should not be."

Finally, about three hours after Bowie died, Miller flagged down a passing flatbed truck filled with downed tree limbs. After some heated words and an offer of $20, he persuaded the driver to take the body to Charity Hospital, where the police had directed them.

Turner helped load the body into the truck bed, then climbed aboard.

The truck turned and made its way into the French Quarter, where jazz bands are known to lead joyful funeral processions through the storied streets. But the streets were deserted Tuesday, and there was no music for Bowie, just the whirring of helicopter blades above.

Superb, well informed and researched post Secrets.....Thank you for that.

MSgirl & Mik....You may not understand my posting style...I thought the sarcasm would show through but some are obviously a bit too tender!

Can I say I have no benchmark and therefore my distaste is at the comparisons made...if you are going to compare make it comparable.

Mikado..you make reference to events which are in my opinion comparable however your examples were generated by man whereas the tsunami & Katrina are nature at work.

If you look back at my posts you'll notice that my constant was the fact that they had warning and that it is a regional event...hence I comend Secrets in his post re the $$$'s & votes. The story of the Evelyn and Xavier is awful but is an example of the authorities failing to deal correctly with the warnings.....here is an example of people who should have been evacuated...if they can mobilise 100,000 troops to the gulf they can temporarily relocate the ill, infirm, very young and the poor...those who are unable to help themselves..

Thank you Secrets....my heart just breaks at the lack of concern for the people who are basically in Third World conditions and not but 5 hrs. south of me. Some very well my family and friends. Everyone will have accountability at some point but right now people need help and a good thought or pray their way. That's all I will post anymore in this thread. Thank you. msgrl

Looking at the news today it seems that the US government didn't realise what a catastrophe this was.

I agree to call it the US tsunami is just ridiculous.

But I do wonder at the ability of people who are told to evacuate, I think some of them didn't have the means or money to go anywhere.

This was always a disaster waiting to happen.
New Orleans always being so far below sea level it was bound to happen one day.
For the US government to see a hurricane coming into the area and leave people to decide for themselves whether to evacuate is horrendous.
Never mind the compulsory evacuation now, what about a few days ago, when the hurricane was due in. Maybe a few more lives would have been saved then.

As for New Orleans itself now, I don't know what will happen to the city.
It's such a historical place, but is it safe to rebuild it?

My thoughts go out to the people trying to get out of there, and those who unfortunatley couldn't.

Found this today.

http://www.buckfush.com/images/bush_No_Help.jpg

You know i got up this morning and the electric meter was empty, i thought about the fish tank, the fridge and deep freeze, my morning coffee, and not being able to watch the news or log on.
Very annoying.
I got the electric card, jumped into the car and went and got some - problem solved!
Then when the news came on, and i browsed a little, i was so glad that that was all i had to worry about.
Secrets that's a great post. This was a disaster waiting to happen, and the possibility had been predicted beforehand. The levees were not high enough to stop the storm surge of a hurricane of this magnitude, the pumps to remove the water were evidently not reliable enough, or sufficiently well designed. The emergency planning seems to have been woefully lacking, and the federal response on the slow side.

I think that the cutbacks to the Corps of Engineers is a bit of a red herring. At best this money would just have allowed repairs to the present levees. It would not have solved the problem that the levees were simply too low for the extreme (Category 5) storm.

Regarding the evacuation before the storm hit, my memory is that the hurricane was considered relatively mild (Category 1) as it passed over Florida, but strengthened greatly at the last moment. People may have been lulled into a false sense of security. However it also seems clear that the inability of the poorer people to get out under their own steam was not properly planned for.

I guess a big question now is: is it worth rebuilding those areas that were flooded? After all, sea levels are rising and hurricanes are reportedly becoming more frequent and more severe. Is it worth trying to recreate what was there before, several feet below sea level but with bigger dykes, or is it better just to start afresh elsewhere?

If you look back at my posts you'll notice that my constant was the fact that they had warning and that it is a regional event...hence I comend Secrets in his post re the $$$'s & votes. The story of the Evelyn and Xavier is awful but is an example of the authorities failing to deal correctly with the warnings.....here is an example of people who should have been evacuated...if they can mobilise 100,000 troops to the gulf they can temporarily relocate the ill, infirm, very young and the poor...those who are unable to help themselves..
Fair enough, I agree with you there. Makes you wonder whether if the USA had not been embroiled in Iraq they might have been able to mobilise aid and soldiers faster to NO.

Gosh this disaster seemingly gets worse by the minute??

5 days down the line and still there are people who have had no access to clean water/food/medical aid or shelter. Quite frankly this is a disgrace and the US government should be hanging their heads in shame!! Yes they warned the people and it beggars beleif that people did not take heed of this warning - but it takes one big dumbo to not realise that there were many people who were unable to move for one reason or another [secrets story highlights one reason why]. Why were plans or strategies put in place for this??

One other thing that strikes me as bizarre, and in this opinion I do not know the lie of the land or how far things are away from other things. But to me there have to be other people who live relatively close to the disaster zones - lots and lots and lots of people who still have homes/electricity/access to food and water - who could do something?? SURELY?? Take their car down there with blankets food, tents, water etc??

I just feel if this disaster had happened in the UK people would be on trains, in their cars and on flights with aid and help!

And how difficult is it to fly in a whole host of helo's packed to the brim with aid, have the ground troops dissemble the aid in an orderly and fair fashion - I mena how difficult is that??? And for the worlds richest country to fall to this level of disorder and anarchy is just diabolicle!!!

On the news tonight there is talk of 10,000 people dead!

Gosh this disaster seemingly gets worse by the minute??

5 days down the line and still there are people who have had no access to clean water/food/medical aid or shelter. Quite frankly this is a disgrace and the US government should be hanging their heads in shame!! Yes they warned the people and it beggars beleif that people did not take heed of this warning - but it takes one big dumbo to not realise that there were many people who were unable to move for one reason or another [secrets story highlights one reason why]. Why were plans or strategies put in place for this??

One other thing that strikes me as bizarre, and in this opinion I do not know the lie of the land or how far things are away from other things. But to me there have to be other people who live relatively close to the disaster zones - lots and lots and lots of people who still have homes/electricity/access to food and water - who could do something?? SURELY?? Take their car down there with blankets food, tents, water etc??

I just feel if this disaster had happened in the UK people would be on trains, in their cars and on flights with aid and help!

And how difficult is it to fly in a whole host of helo's packed to the brim with aid, have the ground troops dissemble the aid in an orderly and fair fashion - I mena how difficult is that??? And for the worlds richest country to fall to this level of disorder and anarchy is just diabolicle!!!

On the news tonight there is talk of 10,000 people dead!


Agree witrh your sentiments Flip. Watching the news last night made Mrs SF and me remark on how scary it is that it is so easy to to fall into a state of disruption and anarchy.

I do feel a tad guilty at my previous post, this hurricane has hit harder than I realised. And whilst it may not be quite the tsunami, it is still devestating. George Bush, what kind of leader is he?

When the London bombers hit, London went into a complete panic, shooting an innocent man and all sorts. Places like Israel and Iraq deal with that sort of thing on a daily basis but when it happened in London it was like it was unique.

Regardless of where this happened it is still human lives we are talking about.

I do feel a tad guilty at my previous post, this hurricane has hit harder than I realised. And whilst it may not be quite the tsunami, it is still devestating. George Bush, what kind of leader is he?

When the London bombers hit, London went into a complete panic, shooting an innocent man and all sorts. Places like Israel and Iraq deal with that sort of thing on a daily basis but when it happened in London it was like it was unique.

Regardless of where this happened it is still human lives we are talking about.

Sorry Bella but disagree about London in panic... People helped each other and supported each other from the moment of the blasts to even current day as did ALL of SE Asia when the Tsunami strock (and earthquakes in other regions of the world....

Just consider the 10's of thousands who have died in other natural disasters such as volcano's in Turkey/China etc, floods in India, earthquakes in Japan etc...Perhaps they may think of them having now experienced such human loss - but the focus seems to be on the economic loss thus far!!

The trouble is that the US news isn't interested in the rest of the world...so the thing is.. why should the rest rest of the world roll over for them??

They are letting bodies float by as they loot and shoot each other.....sorry but my pennies will be staying in my pocket...Wake up - one bad apple and all that...sorry for the good and kind but perhaps this may trigger a cultural awakening!!! Or maybe not!!??

The US is in shock that that nature could be bigger than them!! Kanute obviously doesn't feature in US education...

In the UK I think we fail to appreciate the scale of what's happening, we think in our own terms.

I now want to go back on my original thinking which was how can it take so long to get aid to NO. If yopu look on the map, taking into account the devastation has hit NO, Biloxi, Baton Rouge etc, we're talking about an area maybe 1/3 or 1/2 the size of England. Yes in proportion the USA is so much bigger but we're talking of a total USA population only 4x England's to provide support. News coverage is focussing on NO but that's just a part of the whole area devastated. THe country is having to deal with much more than NO. Suppose 1/3 of England was devastated like that. Even with our own resources, and say we called in Germany and other Eoropean countries to help, how on earth could we contain this?

Sorry Bella but disagree about London in panic... People helped each other and supported each other from the moment of the blasts to even current day as did ALL of SE Asia when the Tsunami strock (and earthquakes in other regions of the world....

Just consider the 10's of thousands who have died in other natural disasters such as volcano's in Turkey/China etc, floods in India, earthquakes in Japan etc...Perhaps they may think of them having now experienced such human loss - but the focus seems to be on the economic loss thus far!!

The trouble is that the US news isn't interested in the rest of the world...so the thing is.. why should the rest rest of the world roll over for them??

They are letting bodies float by as they loot and shoot each other.....sorry but my pennies will be staying in my pocket...Wake up - one bad apple and all that...sorry for the good and kind but perhaps this may trigger a cultural awakening!!! Or maybe not!!??

The US is in shock that that nature could be bigger than them!! Kanute obviously doesn't feature in US education...

Sorry Slipper, just because Americans seemingly don't care, does that make it ok for them to have this natural disaster? It is still human life.

Re The London panic thing - I was talking about the media,

we're talking about an area maybe 1/3 or 1/2 the size of England. Yes in proportion the USA is so much bigger but we're talking of a total USA population only 4x England's to provide support.

A report earlier on the news stated a disaster area 'roughly the size of Britain'.

I heard that report too Fee.


What I can't understand is how they can get the national guard (I think it's them) in to shoot to kill any looters.
But not get any aid in.:blink:

I was thinking earlier, if I was in the same situation, no food, no power, no water, what would I do.
Of course I'd go off to find what I can. Empty stores with food and water in, you'd have to look after your family.

Gosh this disaster seemingly gets worse by the minute??

5 days down the line and still there are people who have had no access to clean water/food/medical aid or shelter. Quite frankly this is a disgrace and the US government should be hanging their heads in shame!! Yes they warned the people and it beggars beleif that people did not take heed of this warning - but it takes one big dumbo to not realise that there were many people who were unable to move for one reason or another [secrets story highlights one reason why]. Why were plans or strategies put in place for this??

One other thing that strikes me as bizarre, and in this opinion I do not know the lie of the land or how far things are away from other things. But to me there have to be other people who live relatively close to the disaster zones - lots and lots and lots of people who still have homes/electricity/access to food and water - who could do something?? SURELY?? Take their car down there with blankets food, tents, water etc??

I just feel if this disaster had happened in the UK people would be on trains, in their cars and on flights with aid and help!

And how difficult is it to fly in a whole host of helo's packed to the brim with aid, have the ground troops dissemble the aid in an orderly and fair fashion - I mena how difficult is that??? And for the worlds richest country to fall to this level of disorder and anarchy is just diabolicle!!!

On the news tonight there is talk of 10,000 people dead!

This attitude towards the help being given bothers me a bit.

There were quite a lot of people living in the area hit...and to mobilize that many is quite a difficult task....especially when as happened with one evacuation attempt...someone started shooting at the helicopters. There are obviously going to be several hiccups in such an effort like this that no strategizing or planning can easily deal with.

And with SO much of NO flooded...and with no way of getting supplies to people in certain areas....it is going to be a long haul to get aid to everyone.

And I've read several articles from foreign news stating that America is failing in dealing with this or that Americans don't care about what is going on here. We do care. America is a huge country geography-wise...and it's just not plausible for most Americans to make it down to help.

Personally, I don't have any connection to anyone in NO, nor have I ever been there, so it's just as hard for me to imagine the situation as it would be for someone who may live in say England. I think to expect people from the farthest regions of American to drop everything and go down there to help just doesn't make sense. It would cost most Americans several hundred dollars just to make it down there...and it's not like they can just go running into flooded areas or flaming fires and magically save people.

And I currently haven't read much from other countries showing their support for the situation....when the first country expected to help and criticised for their level of help in other situations like the Tsunami efforts seems to be America.

Furthermore...what happens with all of the hurricanes down in the southeast of America...is that roads either get so full with people evacuating, that movement to and from the area is nearly impossible....not including the many roads that were destroyed by the hurricane. There's only so many helicopters and planes that one can find to use to help in a situation like this...

There is also the issue of NO having a relatively large population of those in a low socioeconomic status...who don't have the resources to just evacuate (many don't even have cars) or anywhere to really go. The poverty in NO is double the national average...which certainly makes the situation even more complex. Even though they were able to guage somewhat how badly this hurricane would be...it's not like the government had a lot of time to bring aid down there before the hurricane to evacuate people or stock people up with food.

Just because this is the "world's richest country," doesn't mean it doesn't need the help of other countries or can easily deal with such a problem...

IM thank you very much for your post. Yes you are right, we over here have no real benchmark to gauge the size of the disaster area - as a few have mentioned here, and on the news report this morning - they are saying that it would be like Hurricane Katrina hitting the whole width of the south coast of England, and travelling half way up the country!!!

Now I get an inkling of how huge the area is.

So I am sorry to have put a blanket moan at the American people - of course there will be hundreds & thousands helping and doing what they can.

But and this is the bit that most Americans and for sure the rest of the world will be cross at - is the fact that the US [and UK come to think of it] can fly their armed forces out to Iraq and 'take down that regime'. And yet cannot get aid to the south!!

I fully understand, as I have seen the pictures, how logistically difficult it is to either evacuate or bring in aid. IMO that is no defence of the Amercian Government. I see the Armerican hardwear flying over our house weekly, so I know that the armed forces have the capability and hardwear to take in aid. It just strikes me as though who ever is in charge does not have their hand on the pulse. And who might that be??? Hmmm George Bush!!??

I have read what you have all said, and I do have to agree with several points raised.....

In my little hippie haven here in South Devon there were a couple of things that I thought when watching the news of Katrina.......

1) With so many natural disasters in the world WHY do we have to keep killing each other in the name of greed, power and religion???????????

2) When footage was shown of the devastation, a woman was quoted as saying "its like a war zone here, its like a bomb has been dropped" and my initial (and maybe wrong and very harsh) thought was...a bit like Iraq then :glare:

My heart goes out to the people of America who are suffering at this time, but America is a very large and very rich country and therefore should have the resources to put things right, unlike the Tsunami hit places in Asia......I heard on the radio that Greenday and other bands are going to do a "relief concert".....

My final words - Karma..............what goes around comes around....and if this isnt natures way (or for religious people Gods way) of showing us mere mortals that we are going wrong, then I dont know what is!

I am on swings & roundabouts with this situation really I am. Slipper, I appreciate what you are saying and there is a part of me that does agree with you - New Orleans will get back on it's feet, it will become vibrant again. It will take time, but it will get there. People have lived in squalor for 5 days and I do appreciate it that it isn't nice but that are some regions of this world that live like that every single day of their lives.

I am appalled at the shoot to kill policy for looters, I do think that is way over the top, but it is typical of these states as they are known to be very gun-ho!

I am saddened at the plight of the Americans as America may be the richest nation on earth but there are still poor people who live there and it is them who have been hit the hardest.

Let's hope they learn some kind of humanity lesson by this.


My final words - Karma..............what goes around comes around....and if this isnt natures way (or for religious people Gods way) of showing us mere mortals that we are going wrong, then I dont know what is!

And Isis, how true we all take living on this planet for granted.

Here are some facts about these two catastrophic natural disasters.

The December 2004 Tsunami caused by Sumatra-Andaman Earthquake; and
Hurricane Katrina and subsequent flooding

Tsunami: 15 countries affected in coastal areas
with the wave itself reaching up to two kilometers from shore
Katrina: 1 country affected in coastal and inland areas
with 233,000 square kilometers declared a disaster area
Relatively minor flooding reported as far north as Canada
(No reports of substantial effects of Katrina in Carribean or Mexico)

Tsunami: 15 minutes to seven hours elapsed between earthquake and tsunami
Katrina: 24-48 hours advance notice from weather warnings, mandatory evacuation, state of emergency

Feasibility of walking to safety
Tsunami: Distance to safety two kilometers inland plus (say) half a kilometer margin.
If there had been an immediate tsunami warning such as a siren,
an 8 km/hour walking pace would have sufficed to reach safety
Katrina: Distance to safety 175 kilometers from New Orleans to Baton Rouge
If someone had left right when the mandatory evacuation order was issed
and walked all day and through the night for 24 hours straight, a pace of
7 to 8 kilometers per hour would have brought them to Baton Rouge by landfall

Energy released during events
Energy released in earthquake 4.3 x 10^18 joules, or 100 gigatons of TNT
Energy of tsunami itself 2.0 x 10^16 joules, or 5 megatons of TNT
Energy released in hurricane: Average hurricane 5.2 x 10^19 joules per day
Energy as kinetic energy of wind: 1.3 x 10^17 joules per day

Human toll in deaths and displacements
Tsunami: 250,000 dead; 1.1 million homeless; many children among the dead
Katrina: ~10,000 dead; ~2 million homeless; many poor among the refugees
(1 million in New Orleans; 1 million along the Gulf Coast)

Selected economic effects
Tsunami: Up to two-thirds of small-boat fishing fleet destroyed; tourism disrupted
Katrina: 10-20% of US refining capacity closed; ports from Louisiana to Florida closed

Human activity and disaster impact from loss of coastal buffer zones
Coral reef and mangrove swamp removal
may have contributed to tsunami damage
Wetlands loss and levee system contributed
to the likelihood & extent of hurricane flooding

Prior knowledge and likelihood of events
Tsunamis common in Pacific Ocean but less so in Indian Ocean
Earthquake center was on far western edge of "Ring of Fire"
Hurricanes common in Gulf of Mexico but New Orleans
has frequently been spared the worst of them
Many structures and people survived previous storms such as Camille

Sources
http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/tcfaqD.html
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/22/2255000.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9113550

I am sure our hearts go out to all of the victims of both tragedies.

Which just goes to prove that with the best will in the world - people will perish.

Who can say what mother nature is capable of?
Well unfortunately none of us - it's a law unto itself.
Can we predict such catastrophe's?
Well yes to a certain extent we can.
What can we do?
Be prepared as best we can, listen when someone who knows what they are talking about says "Get out of town."
Nature will get us all in the end if we just sit on our ars*'s and think well i'm okay Jack.

*Oh welcome to S/O - i hope you stick around and post some more.:thumbsup:

I nearly forgot this didn't I?

One year ago in the National Geographic:


It was a broiling August afternoon in New Orleans, Louisiana, the Big Easy, the City That Care Forgot. Those who ventured outside moved as if they were swimming in tupelo honey. Those inside paid silent homage to the man who invented air-conditioning as they watched TV "storm teams" warn of a hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico. Nothing surprising there: Hurricanes in August are as much a part of life in this town as hangovers on Ash Wednesday.

But the next day the storm gathered steam and drew a bead on the city. As the whirling maelstrom approached the coast, more than a million people evacuated to higher ground. Some 200,000 remained, however—the car-less, the homeless, the aged and infirm, and those die-hard New Orleanians who look for any excuse to throw a party.

The storm hit Breton Sound with the fury of a nuclear warhead, pushing a deadly storm surge into Lake Pontchartrain. The water crept to the top of the massive berm that holds back the lake and then spilled over. Nearly 80 percent of New Orleans lies below sea level—more than eight feet below in places—so the water poured in. A liquid brown wall washed over the brick ranch homes of Gentilly, over the clapboard houses of the Ninth Ward, over the white-columned porches of the Garden District, until it raced through the bars and strip joints on Bourbon Street like the pale rider of the Apocalypse. As it reached 25 feet (eight meters) over parts of the city, people climbed onto roofs to escape it.

Thousands drowned in the murky brew that was soon contaminated by sewage and industrial waste. Thousands more who survived the flood later perished from dehydration and disease as they waited to be rescued. It took two months to pump the city dry, and by then the Big Easy was buried under a blanket of putrid sediment, a million people were homeless, and 50,000 were dead. It was the worst natural disaster in the history of the United States.

http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/

Who needs Nostradamus!

I have been up and down on this subject. I think in Britain we have a love hate relationship with america, we love to hate it and poke fun out of them, proably because they won the wars of independence, we can cope with losing cricket, football and rugby but wars we tend to be quite good at.

Anyway.

The majority of those who were left behind were poor, elderly or sick. They are also the ones that now have nothing, many will not have been insured and there small amount of possessions have just disapeared. Whether it is 2500 or 25000 that have died try and imagine losing everything. Even if you have insurance many things are irreplaceable. Things like photos, family heirlooms, even the family pet.

As for the management of the crisis. Well there seems to have been no clear leadership. Many people deserted their posts to a. look after their family and b. because they were scared. Shooting looters is scary business, but from the reports chaos had descended and panic set in, how do you begin to control it. It also takes time to organise, you need to work out what you need, where you need it, and then you begin calling up the men and equipment, get them all ready to go and then travel there, in a region where transport is already disrupted. This is a big job when someone is in clear command, but this didnt even happen.

I think that if you live below sea level in a Hurricane suceptable area then you have to take it on the chin when a Cat 5 blows in town - very much like they did in Asia for building at the beach (not many folks did in Asia before the tourist dollar arrived for example, for good reason).

i suppose its like here, we keep building on flood plains and then wondering why it floods????

Did anyone watch the BBC1 documentary tonight on the 'Real Katrina Disatster' - I am not sure if that was the real title??

It showed the story from the US POV of how the whole disaster unfolded and it is understandable from our POV how we reacted so quickly and vehemently towards the US.

The US media kept the 'it is OK' story going for as long as possible - and I am sure the vast majority were lulled, when in fact it was far far worse than they could even imagine, let alone report upon.

The programme highlighted lots of peoples plights, from poor blacks to middle class white - and all inbetween - and there is no difference really, other than they have all lost their homes and many have lost family!

It also showed the accounts of some British tourists who sought shelter in teh Superdome. It heard their story of 6 days of hell, watching children die and be raped, it told of their hunger and trauma. It then told of their 'secret' removal from the superdome by armed guards in small numbers, to avoid the 'masses' cottoning on to what was happening to them!!

For their evacuation I am delighted - but what worried me in this part was how differently the 'white' British tourists were treated next to the mainly 'black' indiginous population??? Were the authorities concerned that the Brits would 'tell'?? It stinks of a cover up and racism to me!!

For their evacuation I am delighted - but what worried me in this part was how differently the 'white' British tourists were treated next to the mainly 'black' indiginous population??? Were the authorities concerned that the Brits would 'tell'?? It stinks of a cover up and racism to me!!

There's been a lot of discussion of the racism issue on the news the past couple days. And Kanye West even announced live on national tv before they could stop it from airing that Bush does not care about blacks and then it cut away as he was making his claim (most thought was out of hand to say this, but I was glad he did). I really do think racism is a big part of the problem going on down there...and hope it does shed some attention on the situation in hopes of making it better in the future...

Couple of thoughts....

1) I appreciate the scale of this disaster but it wasn't unexpected

2) There appears to have been NO contingency plan

3) There seems to be LITTLE TO NO humanitarian effort from the US Economic entities...It doesn't appear that helocopters water craft etc were commandeeredlet alone offered. The Walmart's and the like didn't open warehouses and release food etc ...I'd like to think that Tesco's, Sainsbury's, Asda's of here would just say...release stuff and help!! Cynically it would have been good PR if nothing else! Instead people resorted to what is natural instinct and looted for survival (As well as opportunism). The authorities resorted to what seems to come naturally to them...Shoot to kill...WTF...the shops etc had lost the lot. The amount that would be looted by those remaining is a tiny percentage of what was 'lost' anyway and if just left would certainly be lost anyway.

4) Why had'nt the Navy been mobilised to be in the area to support evacuation and relief

5) As I said before, there is a deffinate cultural issue...The Tsunami victims rallied (even with the overwhelming scale of grief they were suffering) and the world rallied with them. I think this is why the sympathy just isn't anywhere near the same for this


One almighty F-up

Couple of thoughts....

1) I appreciate the scale of this disaster but it wasn't unexpected

2) There appears to have been NO contingency plan

3) There seems to be LITTLE TO NO humanitarian effort from the US Economic entities...It doesn't appear that helocopters water craft etc were commandeeredlet alone offered. The Walmart's and the like didn't open warehouses and release food etc ...I'd like to think that Tesco's, Sainsbury's, Asda's of here would just say...release stuff and help!! Cynically it would have been good PR if nothing else! Instead people resorted to what is natural instinct and looted for survival (As well as opportunism). The authorities resorted to what seems to come naturally to them...Shoot to kill...WTF...the shops etc had lost the lot. The amount that would be looted by those remaining is a tiny percentage of what was 'lost' anyway and if just left would certainly be lost anyway.

4) Why had'nt the Navy been mobilised to be in the area to support evacuation and relief

5) As I said before, there is a deffinate cultural issue...The Tsunami victims rallied (even with the overwhelming scale of grief they were suffering) and the world rallied with them. I think this is why the sympathy just isn't anywhere near the same for this


One almighty F-up

I'll agree that things could have been done better...and that the shooting issue is whack....but I still think people in general are being overly critical of the situation.

I think one of the biggest differences between this and the Tsunami is that this really only affected the US.....the Tsunami truly was an international dilemma...and so easily gained international support. But I'm still amazed that other countries are being more critical of what is going on as a result of this hurricane than being supportive of helping the cause.

And local companies ARE helping the situation...and donating both supplies and money. Just because it isn't being televised doesn't mean they aren't helping. Come on now, do you really think they would just ignore the situation?

And I do think there are certain cultural issues that were magnified by this disaster that should be given attention to....but I don't think they are issues specific to New Orleans or the US.....and I don't think they are issues that lead the US to not 'deserve' the sympathy of others.

Alright, that is all I am going to post on this topic from now on..

1) I appreciate the scale of this disaster but it wasn't unexpected
It wouldn't be wholly unexpected if Istanbul, Tokyo or LA got flattened by an earthquake, or if Bangladesh got drowned by floods, but surely you'd still feel sorry for the poor *******s caught up in it.

2) There appears to have been NO contingency plan
Well I gather there was an plan, only it was a crap one.

3) There seems to be LITTLE TO NO humanitarian effort from the US Economic entities...It doesn't appear that helocopters water craft etc were commandeeredlet alone offered. The Walmart's and the like didn't open warehouses and release food etc
I saw reports of walmart sending water, for example. But yes, the humanitarian effort seems to have been slow off the mark.

The authorities resorted to what seems to come naturally to them...Shoot to kill...WTF...the shops etc had lost the lot.
My memort is that the shoot to kill order only came in after thugs started shooting at helicopters.

4) Why had'nt the Navy been mobilised to be in the area to support evacuation and relief
Mobilised to the Gulf of Mexico before the hurricane arrived you mean?

One almighty F-up
True (but seeing as how we live in a country where a centimetre of snow can bring our transport system to a grinding halt we're in no shape to be superior about it! )

I am very disapointed with the lead of this thread. I have US friends on another forum who have joined 1,000s of other Americans in giving all the help they can. Some have hitched their boats to trailors, stacked them full of food and clothing and are now en route, or already there trying to help. They have been missing offline now for several days. Others have opened their homes and their hearts to take the refugees in. People with mobile homes/camper vans have freed them for use. Stores have been donating masses of food, drink, clothing and toiletries in an effort to ease things. This is what the US needs more than anything, a bit of compassion.

We have no right to sit and sneer, this could have been the whole of our island engulfed - how would we have done?? Any better do you think?

I do agree that many, many people had no hope of escape due to infirmity and lack of transport, and that's the biggest disaster of all - being poor and sick is not an option. One nursing home abandoned all 31 elderly patients, the staff ran to safety, all the patients died. There was an ariel photo taken of a bus station just a day before this storm hit - it was packed full of yellow buses that should have been used to get people out.

The government of the US has a lot to answer to, and they will, the victims deserve at least that.

OK, I'll give it a rest after this post cos I started the thread because I was initially pi55ed off by the comment comparing this to the Tsunami and then dismayed at the lack of humanitarian effort of the American people towards their own (poor/infirm/mentally ill etc)


So I'm just going to post these extracts and the links they come from....








Have to do seperate posts as they are too big for standard post

http://www.wonkette.com/politics/ray-nagin/index.php#nagins-nightmare-full-transcript-123683

2nd September

Nagin's Nightmare: Full Transcript (http://www.wonkette.com/politics//nagins-nightmare-full-transcript-123683.php)
CNN just sent out the full transcript of the New Orleans Mayor's emotional and (understandably) expletive-laden interview (http://www.atypical.net/mm/nagin.mp3) on local radio yesterday: "excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pi55ed."



CNN airs WWL Radio interview with New Orleans Mayor Ray ;

This is a rush transcript and may not be in its final format.

RAY NAGIN, MAYOR OF NEW ORLEANS: I told him we had an incredible crisis here and that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice. And that I have been all around this city, and I am very frustrated because we are not able to marshal resources and we're out-manned in just about every respect.

You know the reason why the looters got out of control? Because we had most of our resources saving people, thousands of people that were stuck in attics, man, old ladies. When you pull off the doggone ventilator vent and you look down there and they're standing in there in water up to their freaking necks.

And they don't have a clue what's going on down here. They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind of goddamn -- excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pi55ed.

GARLAND ROBINETTE, WWL CORRESPONDENT: Did you say to the president of the United States, "I need the military in here"?

NAGIN: I said, "I need everything."

Now, I will tell you this -- and I give the president some credit on this -- he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done, and his name is General Honore.

And he came off the doggone chopper and he started cussing and people started moving. And he's getting some stuff done.

They ought to give that guy -- if they don't want to give it to me, give him full authority to get the job done, and we can save some people.

ROBINETTE: What do you need right now to get control of this situation?

NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.

I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound busline in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy.

I've got 15,000 to 20,000 people over at the convention center. It's bursting at the seams. The poor people in Plaquemines Parish. They're air-vacing people over here in New Orleans. We don't have anything and we're sharing with our brothers in Plaquemines Parish.

It's awful down here, man.

ROBINETTE: Do you believe that the president is seeing this, holding a news conference on it but can't do anything until Kathleen Blanco requested him to do it? And do you know whether or not she has made that request?

NAGIN: I have no idea what they're doing. But I will tell you this: You know, God is looking down on all this and if they are not doing everything in their power to save people they are going to pay the price. Because every day that we delay, people are dying and they're dying by the hundreds, I'm willing to bet you.

We're getting reports and calls that are breaking my heart, from people saying, "I've been in my attic. I can't take it anymore. The water is up to my neck. I don't think I can hold out." And that's happening as we speak.

You know what really upsets me, Garland? We told everybody the importance of the 17th Street Canal issue. We said, "Please, please take care of this. We don't care what you do. Figure it out."

ROBINETTE: Who'd you say that to?

NAGIN: Everybody: the governor, Homeland Security, FEMA. You name it, we said it.

And they allowed that pumping station next to Pumping Station 6 to go under water. Our sewage and water board people -- Marcia St. Martin (ph) -- stayed there and endangered their lives.

And what happened when that pumping station went down, the water started flowing again in the city and it starting getting to levels that probably killed more people. In addition to that, we had water flowing through the pipes in the city. That's a power station over there. So there's no water flowing anywhere on the east bank of Orleans Parish. So our critical water supply was destroyed because of lack of action.

ROBINETTE: Why couldn't they drop the 3,000-pound sandbags or the containers that they were talking about earlier? Was it an engineering feat that just couldn't be done?

NAGIN: They said it was some pulleys that they had to manufacture. But, you know, in a state of emergency, man, you are creative, you figure out ways to get stuff done.

Then they told me that they went overnight and they built 17 concrete structures and they had the pulleys on them and they were going to drop them.

I flew over that thing yesterday and it's in the same shape that it was after the storm hit. There is nothing happening. And they're feeding the public a line of bull and they're spinning, and people are dying down here.

ROBINETTE: If some of the public called and they're right, that there's a law that the president, that the federal government can't do anything without local or state requests, would you request martial law?

NAGIN: I've already called for martial law in the city of New Orleans. We did that a few days ago.

ROBINETTE: Did the governor do that, too?

NAGIN: I don't know. I don't think so. But we called for martial law when we realized that the looting was getting out of control. And we redirected all of our police officers back to patrolling the streets. They were dead-tired from saving people but they worked all night because we thought this thing was going to blow wide open last night. And so we redirected all of our resources and we hold it under check.

I'm not sure if we can do that another night with the current resources.

And I am telling you right now: They're showing all these reports of people looting and doing all that weird stuff, and they are doing that, but people are desperate and they're trying to find food and water, the majority of them.

Now, you got some knuckle heads out there and they are taking advantage of this lawless -- this situation where, you know, we can't really control it, and they're doing some awful, awful things. But that's a small majority of the people. Most people are looking to try and survive.

And one of the things people -- nobody's talked about this. Drugs flowed in and out of New Orleans and the surrounding metropolitan area so freely it was scary to me, and that's why we were having the escalation in murders. People don't want to talk about this, but I'm going to talk about it.

You have drug addicts that are now walking around this city looking for a fix, and that's that reason why they were breaking in hospitals and drug stores. They're looking for something to take the edge off of their jones, if you will.

And right now, they don't have anything to take the edge off. And they've probably found guns. So what you're seeing is drug- starving crazy addicts, drug addicts, that are wrecking havoc. And we don't have the manpower to adequately deal with it. We can only target certain sections of the city and form a perimeter around them and hope to God that we're not overrun.

ROBINETTE: Well, you and I must be in the minority. Because apparently there's a section of our citizenry out there that thinks because of a law that says the federal government can't come in unless requested by the proper people, that everything that's going on to this point has been done as good as it can possibly be.

NAGIN: Really?

ROBINETTE: I know you don't feel that way.

NAGIN: Well, did the tsunami victims request? Did it go through a formal process to request?

You know, did the Iraqi people request that we go in there? Did they ask us to go in there?

What is more important?

And I'll tell you, man, I'm probably going get in a whole bunch of trouble. I'm probably going to get in so much trouble it ain't even funny. You probably won't even want to deal with me after this interview is over.

ROBINETTE: You and I will be in the funny place together.

NAGIN: But we authorized $8 billion to go to Iraq lickety-quick. After 9/11, we gave the president unprecedented powers lickety-quick to take care of New York and other places.

Now, you mean to tell me that a place where most of your oil is coming through, a place that is so unique when you mention New Orleans anywhere around the world, everybody's eyes light up -- you mean to tell me that a place where you probably have thousands of people that have died and thousands more that are dying every day, that we can't figure out a way to authorize the resources that we need? Come on, man.

You know, I'm not one of those drug addicts. I am thinking very clearly.

And I don't know whose problem it is. I don't know whether it's the governor's problem. I don't know whether it's the president's problem, but somebody need to get their ass on a plane and sit down, the two of them, and figure this out right now.

ROBINETTE: What can we do here?

NAGIN: Keep talking about it.

ROBINETTE: We'll do that. What else can we do?

NAGIN: Organize people to write letters and make calls to their congressmen, to the president, to the governor. Flood their doggone offices with requests to do something.

This is ridiculous.

I don't want to see anybody do anymore goddamn press conferences. Put a moratorium on press conferences. Don't do another press conference until the resources are in this city. And then come down to this city and stand with us when there are military trucks and troops that we can't even count.

Don't tell me 40,000 people are coming here. They're not here. It's too doggone late.

Now get off your asses and do something, and let's fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country.

ROBINETTE: I'll say it right now, you're the only politician that's called and called for arms like this. And if -- whatever it takes, the governor, president -- whatever law precedent it takes, whatever it takes, I bet that the people listening to you are on your side.

NAGIN: Well, I hope so, Garland. I am just -- I'm at the point now where it don't matter. People are dying. They don't have homes. They don't have jobs. The city of New Orleans will never be the same in this time.

ROBINETTE: We're both pretty speechless here.

NAGIN: Yeah, I don't know what to say.

I got to go.

ROBINETTE: OK. Keep in touch. Keep in touch.

CNN is reporting that Bush will meet with Mayor Nagin today. If he could bring some troops and money with him that would be nice

(http://www.gawker.com/news/condoleezza-rice/index.php)http://www.gawker.com/news/condoleezza-rice/index.php



2nd September





Condi Rice Leaves NYC High and Dry (http://www.gawker.com/news/condoleezza-rice/condi-rice-leaves-nyc-high-and-dry-123626.php)

Yesterday we had some interesting sightings of Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice enjoying her much-deserved break in Manhattan; she took in a show, played some tennis, bought some shoes (http://www.gawker.com/news/condoleezza-rice/breaking-condi-rice-spends-salary-on-shoes-123467.php). Sounds like the perfect vacation for a Lucky girl. Or not:



At the State Department’s daily briefing yesterday morning, before the New York incident, spokesman Sean McCormack responded to a journalist who asked whether Rice was involved with hurricane relief efforts by saying, “She’s in contact with the department as appropriate.” He made no mention that his boss had any plans to leave New York.



But yesterday afternoon, Rice had done just that. Department spokeswoman Joanne Moore told us: “The secretary is back in Washington, and she is being briefed on the situation.” Moore did not know whether Condi had planned a longer stay here.

So does this mean Madam Secretary won’t be spending today in that big corporate suite at the U.S. Open? Whatever. We’ve ****kicked yet another person from NYC; Ann Curry, we’re coming for you next.



As South Drowns, Rice Soaks in NY (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/gossip/story/342707p-292600c.html) [R&M]

Previously: Condi in NYC (http://www.gawker.com/news/condoleezza-rice/index.php)



1st September



Condi Rice Continues to Shop Up a Storm (http://www.gawker.com/news/condoleezza-rice/condi-rice-continues-to-shop-up-a-storm-123523.php)

The latest on Condoleezza Rice’s Manhattan vacation, courtesy of a reader:



Secret service is all over Seventh Avenue. That ****ing worthless bitch is shopping in showrooms right now.

Whoa, such language! And how could anyone just assume that our leaders have anything other than the best intentions? We actually have it on good authority that Condi’s snapping up the best of the Spring 2006 collections and sending the fripperies directly to the Red Cross.

I am 100% sure that this mate of mine will have no objections to this c/p of his from 8:50 this morning. Read it and think please - this is an old guy who along with many others is just doing all he humanely can. I am tearful just thinking. He has also masses of photos, but for now, this will do.

I just got back Wednesday morning at about 7:30 AM from my trip to Biloxi Tuesday. It has been an experience and I am returning there again Saturday with another load. I had been up for 48 hours when I finally got some sleep today.

Monday, I took my truck and trailer to my local Wal Mart, decked it out with placards and began soliciting Hurricane Katrina donations. When I arrived at 10:30, I had an empty truck and trailer. When I left at 6:00 PM, I had 2500 pounds of essentials. Some people brought me entire buggy loads of diapers, water, food, toys and other essentials for the trip. I even got a wheel chair and a walker donated for the elderly that might have need of them.

When I returned home Monday evening, my wife, (grown) children and friends had amassed another 500-600 pounds of goods. We were up until midnight sorting and loading.

Tuesday morning at 4 AM, I left home, without having slept, headed for Birmingham to meet up with a convoy of other trucks headed to Biloxi. After breakfast south of Birmingham, we all headed south.

About 70 miles from Mobile, my wife contacted me by phone. She told me of a dire need that she had learned of via the internet, in Gautier Mississippi. A woman in Florida, had posted the plight of Gautier on the internet. Her sister (Sonny Wilson) owns a very small road side restaurant in Gautier. (Gautier is located between Pascagoula and Biloxi, about six miles inland.)

Sonny's building had survived the storm and flooding and they were without power until Sunday, but she had opened her doors to the community and been feeding them and caring for them for a week basically on her own. Gautier is a community of about 3000. My wife had learned from Sonny's sister, that the Red Cross had only been by once since the storm (last Thursday) and the limited supplies that they provided then, were almost exhausted. They were out of food essentially.

I quickly located Gautier on the map and informed the others in the convoy that I was diverting to Gautier. There were no problems until we got to Pascagoula, then traffic came to a crawl. The east bound interstate 10 bridge had been damaged during the storm, so they were running traffic in both directions on the west bound bridge.

Norm will be glad to hear that I encountered at least six Canadian military vehicles on I-10 at Pascagoula. they were each pulling rubberized boats and supplies. I couldn't tell their branch, but they were all flying Canadian flags and honked and waved when they saw my truck load and my American flags.

I arrived in Gautier about 1:30 and Sonny and her neighbors were ecstatic. I quickly began unloading canned food, water, diapers and a myriad of other things for them to use. after they were well supplied, Sonny took me to a smaller community called Sioux. It is a fishing village 5 miles south of Gautier. They had been devastated. Houses destroyed and people suffering through the heat with patched together shelters, vehicles, limited clothes and many without shoes.

Sonny told me, that last Thursday a Sioux resident of about fifty, had walked bare footed to her restaurant after hearing that she was giving food and water to all that needed them. She was able to find him a pair of women's bedroom shoes to put on his swollen and bleeding feet. His feet were so swollen, those were all that would fit.

I gave the residents of Sioux many needed essentials, but they would only take (absolutely) what they felt they needed. No more. They told me to take the rest to more needy people elsewhere. I spent about 90 minutes in Gautier and Sioux, where I saw Sonny gladly offering and preparing food for all that came to her restaurant. Men, women and children by the dozens came walking in and she would tell them, "come on in, have a seat, can I fix you something to eat?" "Take what you can use etc." Each would gather a few small bags of canned goods, water, baby formula or diapers and say that was all that they really needed for a few days.

Each and everyone took their small sacks of what they needed and thanked her. I then headed over to Biloxi, where I saw the greater devastation on a grander scale. The community had suffered the direct force of the storm. Nothing was unscathed. Buildings were torn and shredded, or completely flooded out or completely moved from their foundations. Nothing is salvageable.

I was directed to the D'iberville Fire Department, where I gave them over 1000 pounds of essentials and then back to Biloxi where I delivered the rest, except for about 100 pounds of toiletries and personal essentials that I saved back for Gautier. One man in Sioux (earlier in the afternoon) had accepted only 3 pairs of trousers, but he had asked me for underwear. I didn't have any, but promised that I would return with some. The closest open department stores are in Mobile, so I will honor that promise Saturday.

I then took a tour of Biloxi and D'iberville.

D'iberville is a small community of 2000-3000 people, that existed between Biloxi and the gulf. Where Biloxi had been devastated, D'iberville had been destroyed. Completely!

The stench of dead sea creatures and other dead things and spoiled seafood and perishables was as thick as a fog in the air.
D'iberville looked like a huge hand had come through smashing to the ground, everything in its path.

I then drove over the bridge to the casino district and saw where it was devastated. About 5 PM, I returned to Gautier with about 100 pounds of toiletries and other essentials that I had left over.

I remained there until 10:30 last night with Sonny and her neighbors before heading home. Sonny gave me a list of things that they will need for the net two weeks, until the Red cross can catch up with the vastness of what has happened all along the gulf coast.

I will be returning there Saturday with another load of essentials. Tomorrow, I will be on the road and about town collecting once again. I already have a larger trailer lined up from my wife's uncle.

While I was in Gautier and Sioux, I saw a number of small children that had lost all but the clothes they were wearing. Many 3-5 year olds. I asked them if they had anything to play with or sleep with and cuddle at night. Most told me no, that they had lost their bear or stuffed bunny rabbit.

Their families were in no better shape. All of those that were flooded, lost everything in their homes and are living in cars or RV's or under tarps.

I had a bag or two of plush animals and teddy bears that I had collected for just that reason. Each child was given a new bear or other stuffed animal and crayons and coloring books to cuddle and or play with. They were thrilled.

I took many pictures and I will post some of them below. Most were candid shots, on the move from my truck while driving. I didn't want to take any pictures of the people or get out and snap pictures of their plight.

Sonny is a great lady and a caring soul. She is about sixty and lost her husband to a heart attack several years ago. The restaurant is her only means of support. She had a blood clot in her right leg, causing it to swell to the size of a egg plant and look similar to one. But she never stopped cooking and greeting her neighbors all day. She had no money, but she never mentioned it to me or asked for money from anyone while I was there. My wife learned those details from her sister on the phone. Along with the fact that Sonny had already spent all of her money and expended all of her assets to feed the people of her community prior to my arrival.

Late Tuesday night, two women from Memphis with a loaded SUV found their way to Sonny's via her sister's pleas on the internet. We all stayed until 10:30, helping her sort and straighten everything up as best we could. Sonny gave me a list of essentials and I will gather as much as I can carry for my return trip Friday night.

I will read yours later Slipper as I have to go out to work in 10 minutes, and looks like I will be very interested in those posts. :thumbsup:

Going off on a tangent here, I saw on the front page of a Sunday paper that doctors were forced to make a difficult decision and used morphine to kill very sick patients who otherwise would have been moved from hospital and died a lingering and unpleasant death.

If the story is true, it raises (to me) the question of whether one's opinion of what is ethically wrong (in this case that a doctor should not take a life) should be fixed in stone as it were, or whether it should take into account (as in this case) the circumstances.

Going off on a tangent here, I saw on the front page of a Sunday paper that doctors were forced to make a difficult decision and used morphine to kill very sick patients who otherwise would have been moved from hospital and died a lingering and unpleasant death.

If the story is true, it raises (to me) the question of whether one's opinion of what is ethically wrong (in this case that a doctor should not take a life) should be fixed in stone as it were, or whether it should take into account (as in this case) the circumstances.

I was just going to comment on this - what a very, very, very difficult decision to make. One doctor was saying how they had to evaluate who was going to make it and who not, administerthe dose, and bring the poorly patients to a dark corner so they could die. As an act of compassion. If it was me as a patient, I would want that rather than what lay ahead. I hope the doctors do not get any backlash from this because the debate on whether to take a life or not is sterile outside of the tragic events of new orleans and not so fitting. Harsh conditions necessitate harsh decisions.

Just one question. How come in previous reports it was said that up to 10,000 were dead, and on the news they said they have found 400 people - and there may be more ..... but surely not 9,600 more :unsure:

Now this is a tragic thing that has happened, and my heart goes out to the people who have suffered BUT why make the death toll sound so much worse than it obviously is ?

Im not sure they have a definitive number - have they not to go into marked buildings and collect the dead? They ordered 25000 body bags! Let's hope they seriously underestimated the numbers - I doubt if anyone would want to inflate this. However, with the amount of infection that is within the water, the death toll could still increase.

To carry on with this thread, it seems so strange the severe weather in the US, the loss of life, the destruction of entire areas. At least the emergency services are managing it all better. The US has really taken a battering recently. It's hard to watch.

Tonee-so far, as of today on the big news channels, the death toll for Alabama, Mississipi, and Louisiana is right at 1100. Louisiana has the highest number but I don't remember what it is. They still have lots and lots of buildings to secure. I can't remember the percentage they gave of how much of the city and outlying areas had been searched so far but it was low as I guess they are trying to be very thorough. There is a ticker that runs on several of the news channels w/ the pics of children still considered 'missing and unaccounted for'. There have been quite a few removed as people were able to get in touch with each other but there are still loads on there. It hurts me for anyone that has lost their life, but the children and elderly are especially sad, sad news.

Tonee-so far, as of today on the big news channels, the death toll for Alabama, Mississipi, and Louisiana is right at 1100. Louisiana has the highest number but I don't remember what it is. They still have lots and lots of buildings to secure. I can't remember the percentage they gave of how much of the city and outlying areas had been searched so far but it was low as I guess they are trying to be very thorough. There is a ticker that runs on several of the news channels w/ the pics of children still considered 'missing and unaccounted for'. There have been quite a few removed as people were able to get in touch with each other but there are still loads on there. It hurts me for anyone that has lost their life, but the children and elderly are especially sad, sad news.

It is very, very sad news and very humbling experiences (if that makes sense). It seems like the world is changing as we speak!

Yes, I get so depressed. They said they are finding more children in the houses they are checking and one or two guys had to be replaced on that crew b/c they had a breakdown of sorts over it. I cannot begin to imagine and try not to. I'm sure when all is told I will be inadvertantly affected as I have friends of friends and such all over down there but for now, save one friend I haven't heard from, everybody is o.k.

Why is the next hurricane Rita? May seem a trivial question but I'd always assumed it went alphabetically. Anyone know?

You can read about it here (http://www.fema.gov/kids/hunames.htm) Bob!

Presumably Lee, Maria, Nate, Ophelia and Phillipe were minor D-list hurricanes that barely caused a ripple or were to far out of it to be noticed.

They probably Featured in some Hurricane version of Hello magazine.

Fee, you have a site for everything you intelligent being!!! :smartie: