my friend has told me tonight that her daughter is pregnant (she is 16 in June), she's 7 weeks gone and is going to have a termination next week on the NHS.

I think this is absolutely the right thing to do.

My heart goes out to Sue and Mark (the mum and dad) and to Ruth and Tim (the daughter and boyfriend).

Mark is absolutely devasted apparently as he sees the foetus as a life, Sue is much more practical and sees foetus as a mistake that will ruin her daughters life (or at best limit her choices).

It is an horrendous thing for anyone to have to go through.

Would you advise a termination or would you advise keeping the baby?

I'm pro termination, in the right circumstances. Of course, it is completely up to the family to decide if they wish to help with the upbringing of the child, but the prospective parents are hardly more than children themselves. I know that I wouldn't have been ready to be mother at that age. It's a very tricky subject. At 7 weeks, the foetus is unviable, so an early termination would be what I would err towards.

I can see some very differing opinions arising here, Dol.

I don't think you can advise someone on this as a lot depends on circumstances and the pregnant girls feelings. Of course the baby's father and girls parents have their feelings but ultimately the girl is the one who has to make the decision as she is the one who will have to live with it in the future.

I have been there and in the sixties the decision was in some ways easier as it was not easy to get an abortion. I know some will say that all life is sacred and be disgusted by the thought of abortion but I don't think anyone would take that decision lightly.

My heart goes out to her and those involved difficult times ahead whatever they decide.

I am very strongly pro choice & believe whole-heartedly that you wouldn't know what your decision would be until you are placed in that situation.

I found myself pregnant at just 18 & chose a termination. My friend found herself pregnant at 19 & chose to keep the baby. Both of us have our regrets but both of us think we made the right decision for ourselves.

My heart goes out to your friends family Dol especially your friends who are looking at losing a grandchild. That must be hard.

I think with the parents guidance and support it should ultimately be the daughters decision whether she has a termination or not. In the end she is the one that has to live with the decision she makes not, anyone else.

I have to say I wholeheartdly agree with those that have said it is her choice. I also say fair play to her for being open about it too, many girls don't admit/acknowledge it to anyone, let alone their parents and then it is too late.

It must be a tough call to make, having never been in that situation I have no idea how I choose what to do. Good luck to all involved.

If it was my daughter I'd want her to have a termination. And I have a horrible feeling I would practically insist on it. But it's a horrible situation to be in.

I think this is one situation as parents you never want to face or deal with. I do think the choice should be left with young girl though, it is her that will have to live with whatever she decides to do.

I do have every sympathies with them as this sort of thing can tear a family apart. I think it must be very difficult for fathers to cope with the thought of their daugther becoming pregnant. As long as it what the daughter wants and she is not being forced into doing because it seems the right thing to do and she has their support afterwards.

My sister in law got pregnant at 15 and had a termination and a year later she was pregnant again. It completely devestated the family (I get this story every time mother in law comes to tea!). My father in law never got over the fact that his daughter who he worshipped was basically sleeping around, the second time just finished him. My sister in law had the baby and married the father, this was 25 years ago and it was the done thing then. The marriage lasted about 3 years and the father kept contact for a while then got on with his own life.

The upshot of it all was that my sister in law never really had a relationship with her daughter, it was always very fiery and she left home about 10 years ago and has had no contact with anyone except her gran albiet very briefly.

My sister in law blames her parents for them forcing her to have the abortion first time round and claims that's why she got pregnant again!

I know every story is different and I have heard one where a young mum has coped and got on with it, I think in my sister in law's case was that she was and sadly still is quite a selfish person.

I do find it sad that her daughter that she fought to have has been outcast from the family and she states that she will never ever have anything to do with her.

I hope it all works out for your friends Dol.

I wouldn't have the heart to kill it. But, it would be hard taking care of a little one at such a young age. But, like Mark, I see it as life and I think that it's somewhat like murder. You can't really give advice on this matter unless you've actually gone through it

my friend has told me tonight that her daughter is pregnant (she is 16 in June), she's 7 weeks gone and is going to have a termination next week on the NHS.

I think this is absolutely the right thing to do.

My heart goes out to Sue and Mark (the mum and dad) and to Ruth and Tim (the daughter and boyfriend).

Mark is absolutely devasted apparently as he sees the foetus as a life, Sue is much more practical and sees foetus as a mistake that will ruin her daughters life (or at best limit her choices).

It is an horrendous thing for anyone to have to go through.

Would you advise a termination or would you advise keeping the baby?
I've sympathy for them, but to be honest for them to get to this stage - an unplanned teenage pregnancy - all involved have screwed up (npi). The parents have messed up, the daughter has messed up, and the boyfriend has messed up. So while I appreciate the difficulty of the decision, and the seriousness of the consequences, they're rather reaping what they sowed.

IMO if the young couple are fit and able to care for a baby (that is, that they'll stick together, they can make ends meet, they're physically healthy enough) then ideally they'd keep the baby. If they doubt their ability to look after the baby properly then they should have the termination.

I notice that everyone has mentioned the wishes of the daughter and the parents but not the wishes of the boyfriend.

As he appears to still be on the scene, I think the choice should lie with the couple.

Max, I disagree with a parent insisting or forcing a sixteen year old to have an abortion. It would be adding additional stress to what must be an already difficult situation.

You are right SF, he played a role in the pregnancy and it is only right that he should have some say in what happens. However statistics will show that many young couples who have an unplanned pregnancy at this age will not stay together and in many cases, the child has little or no contact with the father.

Mik, I don't know how you can say the parents have screwed up. It is very easy to lay the blame at the parents door but they cannot watch over their 15 year old daughter 24 hours a day.

We don't know what they have or haven't discussed with their daughter re contraception, so I don't think any of us are in a position to say that the parents screwed up.

When I was at school (many moons ago) my friend got pregnant at 15. In those days it was still very much frowned upon. Her and her parents decided she should terminate the pregnancy so she wouldn`t be tied down with a child at such a young age. My friend went on to be a big achiever career wise and has a lovely family but to this day is still very sad over the child that she aborted.

You are right SF, he played a role in the pregnancy and it is only right that he should have some say in what happens. However statistics will show that many young couples who have an unplanned pregnancy at this age will not stay together and in many cases, the child has little or no contact with the father.

But that state of affairs will be encouraged if the father is marginalised, for instance by not being considered when the future of the child is being decided (eg parents insisting on an abortion). And let's face it, the boyfriend is often looked upon as the one who got the girl 'into trouble' and might be inclined to leg it as a result.

I think if the boyfriend has been around for a while then he should be in on all what happens but if it`s just a fling then more often or not he will not want to know.

I think if the boyfriend has been around for a while then he should be in on all what happens but if it`s just a fling then more often or not he will not want to know.

Do you think there's a case for castrating him so he doesn't do it again?

Do you think there's a case for castrating him so he doesn't do it again?
In this case it takes 2 to tango. They are both to blame :)

But that state of affairs will be encouraged if the father is marginalised, for instance by not being considered when the future of the child is being decided (eg parents insisting on an abortion). And let's face it, the boyfriend is often looked upon as the one who got the girl 'into trouble' and might be inclined to leg it as a result.

Of course the boyfriend's feelings should be considered as should the feelings of his pareents because if they (Ruth & Tim) decide to they want make a go of it, and have the baby then they will need the support of both sets of parents.

I do agree that forcing her to have the abortion could make the whole situation worse.

I do think a whole lot of shame is placed on teenage pregnancies and whereas it's probably not the best idea to get pregnant at 15, there are worse situations to be in with teenagers.

THe trouble is that nature wants girls to get pregnant as young as possible - and that's often what happens - whereas society expects girls to get an education, career, choose a suitable partner etc first. So from society's viewpoint teenage pregnancies are wrong, but from nature's viewpoint teenage pregnancies are right.

In this case it takes 2 to tango. They are both to blame :)

What - castrate him and sterilise her?

Ill never forget my best friend getting pregnant when she was 14. I bought the pregnancy test for her and we did it as my house. We were so tense that when we discovered the test was positive we wet ourselves laughing. It was a release mechanism.

I went to the doctors with her, and he was an old man who had no sympathy. He was cruel and mean and made her cry.

I told her she should tell her mum and i couldnt be the only support. I was a kid myself. She did tell her parents and they forced her to have an abortion.

She continued to have unprotected sex with the same boy afterwards, so im suprised she didnt get pregnant again.

I saw this girl in a magazine article a few years back. She is now married with a gorgeous little boy so things came good for her. But that doctor has always stayed in my head. He was so cruel and mean when she needed guidance.

Ill never forget my best friend getting pregnant when she was 14. I bought the pregnancy test for her and we did it as my house. We were so tense that when we discovered the test was positive we wet ourselves laughing. It was a release mechanism.

I went to the doctors with her, and he was an old man who had no sympathy. He was cruel and mean and made her cry.

I told her she should tell her mum and i couldnt be the only support. I was a kid myself. She did tell her parents and they forced her to have an abortion.

She continued to have unprotected sex with the same boy afterwards, so im suprised she didnt get pregnant again.

I saw this girl in a magazine article a few years back. She is now married with a gorgeous little boy so things came good for her. But that doctor has always stayed in my head. He was so cruel and mean when she needed guidance.

What things did Doc Meany say to her?

I notice that everyone has mentioned the wishes of the daughter and the parents but not the wishes of the boyfriend.

As he appears to still be on the scene, I think the choice should lie with the couple.

Max, I disagree with a parent insisting or forcing a sixteen year old to have an abortion. It would be adding additional stress to what must be an already difficult situation.
The girl should have a bigger say than the boy because the consequences of carrying and delivering the baby are greater for the mother than for the father.

Sterilisation would be a bit too late for this couple. A shotgun wedding would be a better solution.

Mik, I don't know how you can say the parents have screwed up. It is very easy to lay the blame at the parents door but they cannot watch over their 15 year old daughter 24 hours a day.

We don't know what they have or haven't discussed with their daughter re contraception, so I don't think any of us are in a position to say that the parents screwed up.
Well either she was having sex with their knowledge and consent, or she wasn't. If the former then the parents have messed up. If the latter then the parents are failing to supervise her adequately.

That's a moot point now.
There is a baby on the way...maybe.

Whatever happens..it sounds like she has the love and support of both her parents, and if she decides to keep the baby then I am sure they will help emotionally and financially.That is very important.
Perhaps she could talk to someone else, who has been in the same situation.
As well as support I would imagine she would need a lot of empathy too.
I just wish them both well.

Well either she was having sex with their knowledge and consent, or she wasn't. If the former then the parents have messed up. If the latter then the parents are failing to supervise her adequately.


Sorry Mik, but I really don't agree with what you are saying. This girl is nearly 16, you cannot expect her parents to supervise her all the time. What do you suggest, she stays at home under lock & key while they hover over her?

Accidents happen even when using contraception and it is wrong to point the finger at the parents when we don't know them at all.

Ok Bella, I'm playing devil's advocate a bit here. I agree we don't know any details.

But do you not think that this - and all the other zillions of unplanned teen pregnancies - shows that "Victorian values" were right. Back in the good ol' days single women were only allowed out if they had a chaperone, and boys were expected to do the decent thing and propose if they got a girl into trouble. Maybe the sexual revolution was a bit of a disaster for us?

I think it is up to the individual to decide, 16 is very young to have a baby but yet she is old enough for se-x. If she does decide to get an abortion i would get her on the pill straight away afterwards, and also she must be made to understand that getting pregnant and having abortions are not the way to go about it.

Poor kid though i feel sorry for her, it's the mental scars afterwards that she will carry.:cry:

Oh Mik, are you seriously saying that the Victorians didn't sleep around and kept their hands on their ha'pennies until they were married!! The Victorians and them before probably slept around just as much, why did so many people die of veneral disease in those times?

Victorian Values were if a girl got pregnant she was thrown into the poor house or had a abortion by some back-street abortionist. I, for one am glad that we have moved on from these times.

I agree though that there are far too many teenage/unplanned pregnancies in this country, especially when children are taught from a very young age about the "birds & the bees". I do get annoyed when you have some young girl around 19 who has 3 kids by 3 different fathers and each of those fathers have about 3 kids each to different girls........that is just careless and not only are they running the risk of getting pregnant but they run the risk of sexual diseases or worse. It's not as if you have to pay for contraception, the pill etc are all free and you can get free condoms from the Family Planning Clinic.

My friend got pregnant at 16 and stated that she was too embarrassed to go to the doctor to go on the Pill......so instead she had a baby at 17, left catering college and got married. That said, they went onto have 3 other children and are still married! :cool:

Max, I disagree with a parent insisting or forcing a sixteen year old to have an abortion. It would be adding additional stress to what must be an already difficult situation.

I agree SF. I'm just being honest, which is why I said 'I have a horrible feeling I would practically insist on it.' Of course, I don't know for sure that is how I'd react. It'd be interesting to find out what my daughter's views on it are.

The decision has to come from the young couple, and although I agree with you SF to a certain extent that the father should play a part in any decision it's the mother who is more at risk psychologically if she doesn't make the right choice.
At this young age I think it comes down to what can she handle.
And first she needs to talk to someone who isn't biased at all.
IMO doctors like the ones that Bonsai mentioned should be struck off for coming down hard on woman who are pregnant and not sure they want to be. If they feel strongly either way they should without hesitation refer the girl to a different doctor.
When a woman is pregnant her body is "taken over" by hormones and it's different for each woman, some may feel nothing others can feel sick and very depressed even if they want to be pregnant, so they need more help than the father at this stage.
All the options need to be considered and discussed. Having some nasty doctor telling you that it's wrong to kill a child isn't helpful and as long as abortion is legal in this country then that argument shouldn't even come into it.
At 16 she has many more childbearing years ahead of her.
Could she have a termination and get over it fairly quickly? Is it going to haunt her and alter her life to such an extent that she can never move on?
Will she become so guilt ridden that she will want to become pregnant again?
It all needs deep thought.
On the other hand if she keeps the child will she have enough support?
This is where the grandparents come in.
I know my parents played a vital role when my sister became a mum at 17, without them she would have struggled. But she didn't have any contact with the father. She was able to go back to school and finish her A levels and then university and I can't say that she has ever really been held back, but she was a bit of a "Tracy Barlow" in the early days! I think she may have played the "you forced me to keep the child, so you have him" card on my parents. It worked out in the end.