:( :wallbash:

It was going to happen at some point before the World Cup. Our star player has been immobilized and we are now up against the clock as to whether 'our Wayne' shall make it or not. Okay, the first game is against Paraguay and they're a lousy bunch of fouling little bas*ards anyway, so it's probably just as well he doesn't make it in time for that particular encounter.

But at some stage we're going to have to lose on penalties to Germany or be cheated out of the World Cup by some Latin Americans and we will desperately need our man to help us do that when we approach those latter stages of the tournament.

My question to you, and it's a very important one, is, can England (Britain's sole representative in Germany) hold aloft that great trophy without Mr. Rooney?...

Also, i'd appreciate it if you could further decide for me whether this smiley resembles Wayne Rooney in casual (not casualty)..--->:kid:

I think there should be another option: "They haven't got a cat in hell's chance, with our without Rooney." That would get my vote.

To look on the bright side, at least the Germans won't have to lock up their grannies for the duration of the tournament :)

We`re doooooomed , doooooomed I tell you.

Every 4 years they tell us we have the best team ever but this year has got to be one of the worse line ups so far.

I hate to say it but - I agree with Patsy - I don't think England have a chance of winning - with, or without, Mr Rooney

That would make three of us then.

I think there should be another option: "They haven't got a cat in hell's chance, with our without Rooney." That would get my vote.

...fair dinkum - It doesn't appear too good on reflection of some of these comments...:cry:...I choose to remain deludedly optimistic! :rain:

We`re doooooomed , doooooomed I tell you.



...oh dear, this doesn't bode well at all does it.:bored:

Ah well, at least England have their excuse when they don't win the World Cup and if they do happen to win it, it'll jsut go to show that one less jumped up pratt does make a difference!

Wonder how long it will take before Uri Gellar will appear on our screens asking everyone to think together! :sleepy: :sleepy: :sleepy:

I hate to say it but - I agree with Patsy

In this instance, or in general? :unsure:

I choose to remain deludedly optimistic! :rain:

I'm with you on that. I'd like to think that it's not a team based around the talents of just one individual.

Never say never ... weeks of being laid up, fitness might be a tad of a problem ....



http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e382/dbkit/rooneyout.jpg

In this instance, or in general? :unsure:

Just this instance - I'm not gonna make a habit of it :ninja:

i don't know about Roonyless, their all bloo-dy useless.:shutup:

I would rather have a Roonyless team anyway...I hate him...arrogant little drip who needs taking down a peg or two not more smoke pumped up his bum...:boxing:
He's more of a liability...what's the use in taking him along when he will only be on the pitch for 10mins before he gets sent off anyway....surely it would be better to give a more deserving player a chance to prove themselves!

Apparently we will not be Roonyless, he is going to Germany and Jermain Defoe has been sent home.

This is what Mr B tells me anyway

I would rather have a Roonyless team anyway...I hate him...arrogant little drip who needs taking down a peg or two not more smoke pumped up his bum...

He's more of a liability...what's the use in taking him along when he will only be on the pitch for 10mins before he gets sent off anyway....surely it would be better to give a more deserving player a chance to prove themselves!

Coastie you surprise me! :shocking:

He's nothing like arrogant and in fact he's notoriously shy...well, shy anyway.

How on earth can you call him a liability and keep a straight face? (...I'm assuming you're keeping a straight face anyway).

You're obviously 'avin a giraffe of king-sized proportions and i think the North American air has gone to your head so I'm allowing you ample time to re-acclimatise before I take you seriously once again.

And who do you have in mind as a 'more deserving' player...Theo Walcott? (hasn't played a meaningful game for Arsenal yet).

There's no-on else beside Crouchy and he'll be starting on Saturday anyway. Jermain Defoe has been snubbed...and that's pretty much it with regards attacking options for England, but I think our having Wayne Rooney more than compensates for that apparent dearth.

He's going to tear the opposition a new one when he's finally ready to be unleashed...you just wait and see! :kid: :flex: :shock:

PS: hope you had a great time in the U.S. of...er...er...A...that's it!...A! - don't know what the 'A' stands for though...:unsure:

Until he has a huge attitude adjustment when on the field and develops a more mature approach to dealing with the odd dodgey tackle against him or comment he will not have any respect or appreciation from me...like I said he is no good to the team if he's on the bench after 10mins because he's been an ass!

Until he has a huge attitude adjustment when on the field and develops a more mature approach to dealing with the odd dodgey tackle against him or comment he will not have any respect or appreciation from me...like I said he is no good to the team if he's on the bench after 10mins because he's been an ass!

...but that's the Rooney of yesteryear - not the Wayne Rooney we know today. He has matured, but let's not forget he's still only twenty flippin' years old, and he's relatively new to the professional game. There are a lot of provocative types/wind-up merchants in the arena of professional football, and it can be much worse at international level. He's still developing his own ways of countering that and I think he's done a tremendously good job of it this last year or so.

He's not a Vinny Jones or Mark Dennis character and he's not out to hurt anybody in the game in the way that those two tried with deliberate intent. He's one of the most gifted young English players this country has seen in years - since Paul Gascoigne I would say.

It's players like Wayne Rooney that go some way to justifying the ridiculous admission fees that are charged at most grounds these days, and without opportunities to go and watch players with the talent such as Wayne Rooney possesses, then why on earth would anyone wish to squander £30, £40, £50+ on a hard seat surrounded by a large number of the types of people you wouldn't ordinarily dream of spending 15 seconds in the compnay of?

I hope to be proved wrong, realy I do, but I still think of him as more of a liability than a help!

I hope to be proved wrong, realy I do, but I still think of him as more of a liability than a help!

I understand where you're coming from with this Coast and yes its is absolutely essential to England's cause that he keeps his behaviour in check so that he doesn't jeapordize our chances. I'm not suggesting for one moment that he's completely rid himself of the behavioural problems he suffered early on in his still very fresh football career, but he's obviously being given the right kind of guidance at Old Trafford, whereas at Everton he was playing under David Moyes, who himself was very young and inexperienced and probably wasn't able to deal properly or effectively with Wayne Rooney's attitude at that stage.

It's been almost two years since Rooney left Everton behind for the greener pastures of Old Trafford and I think everyone associated with Manchester United has noticed a massive improvement in the lad's attitude. Sven himself also came out and stated that if he didn't change his ways then he simply wouldn't be selected for the national side, so obviously the now departing England boss is more than satisfied with Rooney's attitude as we go into this World Cup.

He was just a young talented kid brought up in a rough part of Merseyside, and he took a lot of his frustrations with him into football. He's got a teriffic passion for playing football and his attitude towards the game itself is exemplary (I've never seen him give less than 100% in United, Everton, or England colours), and the signs are that he's also curbed his temperament considerably. And as far as this World Cup is concerned, the other countries fear Lampard, Beckham, and Gerrard, but they are absolutely terrified of Wayne Rooney - that can only work to England's advantage.

Trouble for Rooney is that he will, like Beckham of the past, be a target for the oposition defence...they will know about his temperament and will take every oportunity to wind him up...he needs to have matured a hell of alot to put up with that kind of abuse...

Owen has suffered the effects of being a star before...he has been tackled numerous times because he was seen as a threat...often the oposition would double up on him and take him down...yet because his father wouldn't let his talent go to his head and he was always taught to maintain his cool the oposition soon realised this tactic wouldn't work on him...Rooney on the other hand is someone who I fear will snap after the first few 'meaningfully' over zealous challenges he will undoubtedly receive!

Trouble for Rooney is that he will, like Beckham of the past, be a target for the oposition defence...they will know about his temperament and will take every oportunity to wind him up...he needs to have matured a hell of alot to put up with that kind of abuse...



I know, it's a great concern of mine too, but i don't think he will react - he'll receive provocation, but i don't think he'll react, and i also don't think what occurred in France '98 with David Beckham will not be lost on him either.

If David Beckham, as team captain tries to usher Rooney away from any hint of trouble, then he must listen and obey. It's as simple as that. I would prefer to have Steven Gerrard as England captain not only because i think he would make a much better leader of our national side, but as he's a fellow scouser, he'd receive Wayne Rooney's attention far more succesfully than Beckham would.

Anyway, I prefer to look at it from a more positive angle, and the potentially-great things that Wayne Rooney is going to produce and achieve at this tournament. And besides, his behaviour at Euro 2004 where he did absolutely amazing things for England, was sound enough in spite of some provocation during that tournament.

He'll be fine, and if he's as fit as we're lead to believe, England will be fine too.:kid:

As for Michael Owen, i actually believe that he could do with some of the fire that lingers in Wayne Rooney's belly at times...

There is lots of speculation that Rooney might play tomorrow against Trinidad and Tobago. He is obviously itching to get on the pitch. You could see him physically squirming on the bench the other day. Did you see how much he was sweating as well? I know it was a hot day - but he wasn't even playing!
Anyway, I'm not sure if bringing him on for T & T would be such a good idea. If he does play then there is potential of legal action - but against who? The "England management" - Sven will have gone.
I'm worried that he is going to be too fired up and go into like a bull in a china shop.

The trouble with putting him on against T&T is that T&T is a country that likes to hack at players legs...this could lead to potential disaster for Rooney who, although they say he is fit, will still have a slight weakness in his foot at this time and one good hack from a T&T player he could be off for the season!

That and the fact that he is, as you have said Haydon, a firey character who could easily get wound up by the oponents who are rather good at riling their oposition!

maybe if they just bring him on for the last 10mins to streatch his legs a little. This would also reduce the risk of further injury and his chance to get into trouble with the ref!

Well it was Lennon who made the biggest difference today IMHO! :cool:

Well he's back, maybe not so fit, but I think the issue remains Sven.

England has the players, as do some other countries, but its the management that makes the difference (plus a bit of luck) at this level.

Good luck to England, but they are going to need it (after seeing Argentina tonight. Ok Serbia isn't the best team, but neither is Trinidad, and England couldn't play like a machine like Argentina did tonight. Argentina was scary).

The England players acknowledge that playing as they have been they can't go far so hopefully that will spur enough of them on to get the job done a little more convincingly against Sweeden...but who knows!

Coastie...




:shutup:...i bow to your supreme wisdom...:good:




:smartie: <---this is Coastie everybody!

Sometimes I hate it when I'm right... :angry:

Did you notice that creep Ronaldo wink at the camera...

I said to my mum before the game that I Rooney would be a target...not to take out via a foul but to frustrate and get sent off...what a sneakyB***tard Ronaldo is eh...like he didn't brief the rest of his team on how to rattle Rooney's cage...oooh how he is up for a beating on his return to Man.U. :boxing:

Still...they made it to the quarter finals which was all I was expecting...:)

Sometimes I hate it when I'm right... :angry:

Did you notice that creep Ronaldo wink at the camera...

I said to my mum before the game that I Rooney would be a target...not to take out via a foul but to frustrate and get sent off...what a sneakyB***tard Ronaldo is eh...like he didn't brief the rest of his team on how to rattle Rooney's cage...oooh how he is up for a beating on his return to Man.U. :boxing:

:)
Fu*k yeah!...what was all that about?? (the wink and the shhush)

I've had a right good go at him on me webspace as i can probably get away with more there than what i can here...:cool:

But, yeah...you was right - no getting away from that Coastie you learned person you! - perhaps (most definitely) he is still a wee bit young and naive...

Hargreaves was out of this world though...it's a shame the England exit will overshadow that one piece of positivity in tomorrow's press.

Yeah...what has happened to Hargreaves...he is normally a figure on the field but not much else yet he has played a couple of blinders! :mellow:

Ashley Cole was phenomenol again...

Yeah...what has happened to Hargreaves?...he is normally a figure on the field but not much else yet he has played a couple of blinders! :mellow:

Ashley Cole was phenomenol again...

Hargreaves was someone else on that football field...he wasn't Owen Hargreaves!!...


I think Ashley Cole will have earned himself a sponsorship deal with that new pharmaceutical products company 'phenomenol' after his teriffic display...:blush:

Having just seen a BBC news report concerning the Rooney-Ronaldo situation, i think my worst fears have been confirmed and that indeed Wayne Rooney fell for the bait in a very clever (or rather too obvious) plot to have him sent off.

This wink from Ronaldo towards the Portugese bench seems to indicate, as the BBC reporter put it "job done!" - i believe that to be the case. It appears that the plot may have been hatched prior to kick-off. Who better to expose Rooney's weakness than a club teammate.

I can understand how Rooney looking on as watching Ronaldo pleading with the referee to take some kind of action against Rooney would ignite his temper and obviosuly the surge of adrenaline resulted in a momentary loss of self-control.

I'd be interested in learning whether Sven or Steve McLaren had words with their temperamental charge beforehand - surely they ought to have prepared Rooney for this type of provocation, and that indeed the most likely provocateur would be his Manchester United teammate Cristiano Ronaldo. If they did not then i think they should also be held accountable for Rooney's actions, as that would suggest to me a lack of tactical nous.

I also think our 'captain' David Beckham or Gary Neville (whoever was in that role at the time) should have been ushering Rooney away immediately, as we are still none too clear as to what he received the red card for - his initial action, or that which followed when he shoved Ronaldo away?

Had our 'captain' been on the scene and lead Rooney away from the trouble that ensued then perhaps we would have had eleven men on the pitch for the remainder of the game and possibly into extra time too. Rooney would certainly have taken a penalty...and chances are he would have scored.

I also wish to know why it is that we always have to rely on defenders to take our penalties in these type of situations? Why, in the name of all sanity do we not ensure that we have at least five players on the pitch when a penalty shooutout is threatening, who are capable or taking a penalty or familiar with the pressures that come with taking penalties. I know Gerrard and Lampard scored 20 goals each in the Premiership last season and i know that both are perfectly capable of taking a penalty at Anfield or Stamford Bridge against Wigan Athletic, but if they can't cut it when under extreme pressures, such as those presented to them in a major tournament with the entire nation's hopes resting heavily on their shoulders, then they shouldn't be handed the responsibility. It's as simple as that.

If i was preparing England in the build-up to a World Cup or the European Championships then because it is extremely difficult to simulate those pressures, (and i've often heard this being said by media pundits who ought to have more imagination) you must at least invent some type of pressure to place on our players when taking penalties in training sessions.

This could simply be..."okay, i want everybody here to take ten penalties each...those who register the highest number of ticks in each of the three areas of defence, midfield, and attack get to start the next friendly (he should already be aware of who is starting XI is anyway)...and we will continue with this procedure right up until our last friendly before the tournament begins...best of luck!...now get on with it!".

I'd sooner make myself fully aware as team coach, of who among my playing staff, has bottle and who does not, rather than just give the same old players a game just for the sake of match practice (they should all be fit and ready anyway).

We really need to start looking at these kind of techniques, or do we have to keep on entering into these penalty shootouts having to watch the likes of David Batty (i had no faith), Gareth Southgate (again, no faith), and now Jamie Carragher (no faith whatsoever) looking shakier than a plate of jelly just before they strike the ball? It's time we got smart and had a good hard look at our preparation methods if we don't want to keep on suffering silly little repeats due to the same old problems.

Wake up England!

England won`t wake up that`s the problem. We have never won a penality shootout and probably never will. Hopefully Rooney will mature enough before Euro 2008.

England won`t wake up that`s the problem. We have never won a penality shootout and probably never will. Hopefully Rooney will mature enough before Euro 2008.

...and we also have two years to figure out who has bottle and who does not. Ample time, and it's now McLaren's (and his staff's) responsibility.

And i hope it's now (should have been years ago) given more consideration/priority.

A Rooneyless England could win a future World Cup but the key is to start the game without him not to have him hamper the team by getting sent off during the game and leave them to win the game.

Regardless of what Sven thought I think there are more than 3 English adult strikers who could do a decent job for them.

Best thing I have read is that the players skills at play acting now exceed any human capacity a referee has to determine what is true and what isn't.

Thierry Henry was the best example - crying foul at the play acting in hte Euro cup, then doing a swan dive to set up France's winning goal in one of their matches and getting one of their players booked for a shameless dive.

If the players are rewarded like that, they will train to get better at it.

The argument comes back to technology. Its the only way that in major decisions the decisions can be made on the same information that we, the paying public, see.

Let the ref ask for video review for cards. He doesn't have to stop the game, just give the decision when it gets radioed down, and if people want to argue, its not him who made the call, so they can all vent their frustration at the cameras for us all to watch. He can give any card he wants if he feels he doesn't need a review, but for massive decisions like sending Rooney off, get a panel to decide off-field if it is warranted. In this situation with Rooney, I'm pretty sure he ould have stayed on the field.

Remind me again - Figo headbutted someone in the Dutch game, yet he didn't get sent off? Then Rooney's "stamp" followed by a dying swan act from Carvalho. Consistency, lacking.

Having just seen a BBC news report concerning the Rooney-Ronaldo situation, i think my worst fears have been confirmed and that indeed Wayne Rooney fell for the bait in a very clever (or rather too obvious) plot to have him sent off.

This wink from Ronaldo towards the Portugese bench seems to indicate, as the BBC reporter put it "job done!" - i believe that to be the case. It appears that the plot may have been hatched prior to kick-off. Who better to expose Rooney's weakness than a club teammate.

I can understand how Rooney looking on as watching Ronaldo pleading with the referee to take some kind of action against Rooney would ignite his temper and obviosuly the surge of adrenaline resulted in a momentary loss of self-control.

I'd be interested in learning whether Sven or Steve McLaren had words with their temperamental charge beforehand - surely they ought to have prepared Rooney for this type of provocation, and that indeed the most likely provocateur would be his Manchester United teammate Cristiano Ronaldo. If they did not then i think they should also be held accountable for Rooney's actions, as that would suggest to me a lack of tactical nous.

I also think our 'captain' David Beckham or Gary Neville (whoever was in that role at the time) should have been ushering Rooney away immediately, as we are still none too clear as to what he received the red card for - his initial action, or that which followed when he shoved Ronaldo away?

Had our 'captain' been on the scene and lead Rooney away from the trouble that ensued then perhaps we would have had eleven men on the pitch for the remainder of the game and possibly into extra time too. Rooney would certainly have taken a penalty...and chances are he would have scored.

I also wish to know why it is that we always have to rely on defenders to take our penalties in these type of situations? Why, in the name of all sanity do we not ensure that we have at least five players on the pitch when a penalty shooutout is threatening, who are capable or taking a penalty or familiar with the pressures that come with taking penalties. I know Gerrard and Lampard scored 20 goals each in the Premiership last season and i know that both are perfectly capable of taking a penalty at Anfield or Stamford Bridge against Wigan Athletic, but if they can't cut it when under extreme pressures, such as those presented to them in a major tournament with the entire nation's hopes resting heavily on their shoulders, then they shouldn't be handed the responsibility. It's as simple as that.

If i was preparing England in the build-up to a World Cup or the European Championships then because it is extremely difficult to simulate those pressures, (and i've often heard this being said by media pundits who ought to have more imagination) you must at least invent some type of pressure to place on our players when taking penalties in training sessions.

This could simply be..."okay, i want everybody here to take ten penalties each...those who register the highest number of ticks in each of the three areas of defence, midfield, and attack get to start the next friendly (he should already be aware of who is starting XI is anyway)...and we will continue with this procedure right up until our last friendly before the tournament begins...best of luck!...now get on with it!".

I'd sooner make myself fully aware as team coach, of who among my playing staff, has bottle and who does not, rather than just give the same old players a game just for the sake of match practice (they should all be fit and ready anyway).

We really need to start looking at these kind of techniques, or do we have to keep on entering into these penalty shootouts having to watch the likes of David Batty (i had no faith), Gareth Southgate (again, no faith), and now Jamie Carragher (no faith whatsoever) looking shakier than a plate of jelly just before they strike the ball? It's time we got smart and had a good hard look at our preparation methods if we don't want to keep on suffering silly little repeats due to the same old problems.

Wake up England!


What utter rubbish!! Do you really think that Ronaldo controlled the game and got Rooney sent off?! Wake up & smell the coffee folks and stop looking for a scapecoat in Ronaldo. Ronney got sent off because of a vicious foul, he stamped on the Portguese players nuts!! Do you really think that the referee sent Rooney off just because Ronaldo told him to?!! Jeeez, Rooney is a loose cannon, an extremely viotile one at that! Yes, he was frustrated that he wasn't getting the ball but isn't the case that the Portguese were doing there job and keeping the ball from Rooney. Rooney launched in like a kid in the playground and started thrashing around, his stamp was delibrate -did you see the look on his face when he done it! The referee's decision was probably already made before Ronaldo came up and put his tenpence worth it - Rooney done his attack right in front of the ref!

Yes, it was bad timing as Beckham had just gone but if Rooney wants to be recognised for the great striker that he is he needs to sort out his temper, it was not the first time that he behaved in that appalling manner. Did you see the way he behaved when Sven took him off, who the heck does he think he is? He threw his shoes off, stamped up and down behaved like a toddler having a tantrum. His behaviour disgusted me and he deserved his sending off and FIFA obviously agreed since they gave him a 2 match ban.

After all the hype Rooney created before the World Cup, it does seem a shame that it ended with him going off but it was the result of his own stupid actions and let's hope that next time he can walk away.

I think it is pathetic that people are wanting rid of Ronaldo from Man U because of this, it is sad that people like Alan Shearer are saying that when Rooney gets back to Old Trafford that he should lamp one on Ronaldo! I mean where is that sort of behaviour going to get you. Rooney should just accept that he done wrong and move on.

Ronaldo is no angel and his constant diving and appealling for free kicks is wearing thin but he is also a great player and his penalty was spot-on, just really well taken unlike the England Camp.........................

......You would have thought that as Woodstock has said that they would have decent people lined up to take these godforsaken penalties but 4 misses was just appalling. The only one I felt sorry was Steven Gerrad, he looked as nervous as anything but the others were just completely misplaced. They should take a long, hard look at the Germans, their penalties were clinical and to perfection!

I think Bella that you are missing the point in the fact that the way Ronaldo acted over the incident was very unsportmanslike and contrary to a way that 'mates' would act.

The wink said it all. I'm not denying that Rooney's behaviour was uncalled for, but the fact that Ronaldo jumped straight on the bandwagon after is what the English people are upset about. He knew what he was doing and he manipulated the situation. Hence the wink. Rubbing salt into bad wounds.

I think if you ask any Englishman they would agree Rooney's behaviour was unacceptable, but on the other hand, so was Ronaldo's. You just don't do that to teammates on or off the pitch. Unwritten code of conduct. Hence th continued booing from both the Germans and the French. It's not just the English that see the problem.

I think Bella that you are missing the point in the fact that the way Ronaldo acted over the incident was very unsportmanslike and contrary to a way that 'mates' would act.

The wink said it all. I'm not denying that Rooney's behaviour was uncalled for, but the fact that Ronaldo jumped straight on the bandwagon after is what the English people are upset about. He knew what he was doing and he manipulated the situation. Hence the wink. Rubbing salt into bad wounds.

I think if you ask any Englishman they would agree Rooney's behaviour was unacceptable, but on the other hand, so was Ronaldo's. You just don't do that to teammates on or off the pitch. Unwritten code of conduct.

Not at all Tigger, I have mentioned that Ronaldo was no angel and yes he should have stayed out it but then Rooney only made it worse by pushing him.

I think the wink has been blown out of all proportion - England need a scapecoat for their performance and Ronaldo provided them with that.

The thing is they were not team-mates on the pitch, they were on opposing teams and these days it appears that there in general rift within football teams, nobody gets on with anyone.

Rooney is a thug, hot-tempered and Ronaldo knew the buttons to press but in order to push that final button, Rooney launched the attack for the plan to go forward. No-one to blame but himself. The portoguese may well have had a plan and Rooney fell for the bait, hook, line and sinker!

Anyway looks like Rooney has accepted Ronaldo's apology:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/pompeybird/post-16-1152096631.jpg

Well I still stand with my view that Ronaldo was very unsportsmanlike and manipulative, and it would seem even the French and German crowds agreed. People will not like that behaviour as much as they won't like the aggression Rooney showed. So Ronaldo sowed his own seeds IMO.

Well I still stand with my view that Ronaldo was very unsportsmanlike and manipulative, and it would seem even the French and German crowds agreed. People will not like that behaviour as much as they won't like the aggression Rooney showed. So Ronaldo sowed his own seeds IMO.

I'm not so sure a crowd's reaction is a fair reflection of justice. Look at how the crowd reacted to the Zidane incident yesterday, jeering the Italians for the rest of the game, and the refereee at the award ceremony, as if they'd been dealt a huge injustice.

Re the Ronaldo wink - rather than it saying everything, surely it only says what you want it to say. It was just a wink. One player stamps on another's plums and gets sent off, Ronaldo winks. Which is the more unsportsmanlike?

Both SF. I think they are both as bad as each other.

If that's the case Tiggs, who was worse last night - was it the Italian for mouthing off to Zidane, was it Zidane for head butting him or was it the Italian goalie who left in spot in the goal mouth to come and state his case to the referee?

Players are always surrounding the referee when a foul takes place, I have seen it happen loads of times - seen players getting booked for those incidents.

The wink has IMO been blown out of proportion, I mean maybe Ronaldo has something in his eye and the British press make it out that is something more sinister.

Ronaldo gets booed all the time and it is for his fancy dan routines with his constant diving and drama routines, that is bad sportsmanship and he needs to stop that. He should have been booked on a couple of occassions for that.

I don't get all this team-mate business, yes they play at Man U together doesn't make them bosum buddies.

And I thought it was disgraceful of the French fans booing the Italians, where was their sportsmanship last night?

RONALDO DOESN'T WANT TO PLAYT FOR MAN. U. ANYMORE...FUNNY THAT :sly:

I think any player that shows such bad sportsmanship deserves to be slated but I knew Rooney would be a tit in the end and saddly he proved me right! He has to learn to rise above it...Beckham had to (the hard way as well)...

...am i the only one to have seen the footage of the incident that occurred before the match even started?? (those were the Portugese 'tactics' i was referring to) - I think Sven and McLaren ought to have seen it coming and prepared thier 'volatile one' a little better.

But let's be perfectly clear that the winding up was done before a ball was even kicked in this match. And was there an England player anywhere near Rooney to direct him away from this incident when it was taking place??...the answer is 'no' and there should have been.

That falls ultimately on Sven and it is just another example of his exceedingly bad preparations for the England World Cup debacle throughout.

Never mind his salary, a manager deemed exceptional enough to take charge of an international team/squad should, and i stress 'should' have foresight and make it his business to leave no stone unturned in all manner of preparations for an international match or tournament - be that dietary, tactical, motivational, discipline, etc.

The incident which took place involving Rooney, Pauleta, and our dear friend Ronaldo falls into the category of tactics, and although i expect Sven would have regarded this as not being of prime inportance, or even his territory, he does however, appoint the staff whose responsibility it should be to prepare the players for such gamesmanship from all opposition, especially the Portugese.

And no, i simply do not wish to see Ronaldo wearing the red shirt of Manchester United ever again. His antics not just in that particular game, but in every game that Portugal played at the World Cup were despicable and were far removed from the true spirit of the game.

I simply do not wish to see such dishonesty and ill-advised tactics on display at Old Trafford or anywhere else we play in the Premiership because it ultimately reflects badly on Manchester United. He has been performing such devious tricks since day one and everyone at the club has been tolerant, but now it's time to question whether it is in our best interests to have someone like this setting these kinds of examples, particularly to our youth team members and those who are still at an impressionable age within the club.

During the course of the last season, he has also been involved in incidents which resulted in training ground bust-ups with Alan Smith, and Ruud van Nistelrooy - the latter leading to an unfortunate division between the Dutch striker and Alex Ferguson, who sought to protect the youngster when he ought to have reprimanded Ronaldo - the beef in all cases has been Ronaldo's showboating and lack of teamplay. Just further reasons why he is not the right material for this football club, and certainly not pathetic reasons.

If the word pathetic should be used then perhaps it ought to be attached to describing Cristiano Ronaldo's behaviour throughout the tournament. It was not professional, it was not pleasant, and although he and those around him may have thought it clever, nor was it that.

Let him go and 'do his stuff 'at the Bernabeu or Nou Camp next season onwards, let it reflect badly on them and let him unsteady one of those ships instead. I don't want to see a player with a reputation and agenda like he has performing for Manchester United.

I'd rather not see players of his pedigree performing full stop. It's a tragic tarnish on the sport, and sport in general.

Woodstock, I agree with your feeling, but I think directing it at any individual is unfair. eg, Chelsea v Barcelona, the Messi and Del Horno incident where Del Horno got sent off. All players are encouraged by the ruling bodies to play act - it is the system.

I heard a good one the other day (maybe this forum?) where someone said that after each game, based on video evidence, anyone thought to be play acting gets a 1 game ban. This based on the "more than 50% probability" rule, so mistakes will happen, but players are then severely encouraged to go out of their way NOT to overreact.

How hard can it be? If you get head butted in the chest (Zidane), it does NOT hurt, so if you go rolling around on the floorlike you have had a baseballe bat in the throat, that in my book is a one game ban.

Its the only way to stop it. Relying on players to be good honest citizens is the same as relying on underwriters at Lloyds to uphold centuries of tradition - "my word is my bond". It does not work, and it did not work. Legislation works, it is obvious, and it is inevitable.

Ask anyone at Lloyds.

Also, am I alone in thinking that the players are so good at it (there was an example with an Argentinian player I was VERY impresed by), that they go not get trained to "fall" in a convincing way? It is an art form at times, and approaches levels that can only be achieved by "ballet trainers". The Argentinian example was a moving ball incident where he moved into a stationary leg and dived theatrically, then the defender got booked. The defender didn't even move. How is it possible without moving to create a foul that generates a booking! Watch the Argentinian attacker, he will show you how.

I'm speaking both as a Manchester United supporter and an observer of the sport generally. But I'm not sure what you are talking about with your mentioning that all players are encouraged to play-act by the ruling bodies.

As i mentioned, most Manchester United supporters have been tolerant of this player, though the same cannot be said about opposition supporters across the country and even the continent - and they have good cause to feel aggrieved at this one particular player's behaviour.

Manchester United supporters are not blind themselves and i know that many do not particularly like what they are seeing with regards Cristiano Ronaldo's approach to the game. As an observer of the game, i'm afraid gatebula, you have to call it as you see it, and unfortunately for Cristiano Ronaldo he has displayed all the wrong traits in his very short career.

It is a behaviour which needs to be seriously addressed by the governing bodies, and the only method of ridding football of this and other unwelcome blights is for referees to be afforded access to replay monitoring, as is very successfully applied in NFL.

Of course, it will inevitably add on additional time (find me a football fan who'd complain and i'll show you a liar...or at least someone who begins work at 6:00pm on a Saturday), but there are those who will say, including myself, that one hour and 50 minutes passes by too quickly anyway, and let's face it the footballer's don't put in the hours to warrant the wages they 'earn' so make them work that little while longer.

Apparently they HAVE found out what the difference is between C. Ronaldo & God......




God doesn't think he is C. Ronaldo !




Part of the trouble is the Managers. They should be seen to come out and discourage this sort of thing but all they do is stay mum.

Here you are talking of C.R. but what about Owen? Both for England and clubs he's had a habit of flying through the air with the greatest of ease!

Did you see that advert that was on just before the tournament? the hidden camera watching the team training learning fakes & dives? Summed it up but as soon as the WC started it went off air!!

I agree with him going to somewhere in Europe if FIFA was to subject all clubs to the same discipline penalties and rules. However (look at Spain and Turkey) They don't! As in a petty thief going into prison, he will just learn better his craft.

I suggest a morning a week on the training ground with Stuart Pierce, Keown or Tony Adams. He'd soon learn what it really feels like!!

I think we are tlking the same language Woodie.

Also Slip, you make good mention of some players who did not surrender to the plague, but they then become victims of it.

Some players are indeed great examples. Keane (MU), although he was naughty in other ways. But we have seen Rooney dive, also Beckham, as you say Owen Slip - who was it got the penalty against Argentina last world cup? England - innocent not.

But the Portuguese are by far the worst I have seen. As an MU supporter Woodie, you must still be fuming about the Benfica dance show last time. And the time wasting thing too - thats also really irritating - add two minutes for every minute time wasting and it will stop.

Someone mentioned playing the game for a fixed 70 or 80 mins, where all deadball situations (throw ins, corners, free kicks, injuries) you get the clock stopped, so every game is 70 or 80 mins of ball-in-action playing. I think it works aout to be the same as the current 90 mins, but without everyone worrying about how much time it takes to take a free kick etc - but still keep the insistance to take it in a timely fashion. I like that idea too!

Reformation is due.

Anyway looks like Rooney has accepted Ronaldo's apology:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/pompeybird/post-16-1152096631.jpg

Just noticed this...nice humour piece Bella!

Part of the trouble is the Managers. They should be seen to come out and discourage this sort of thing but all they do is stay mum.


I suggest a morning a week on the training ground with Stuart Pierce, Keown or Tony Adams. He'd soon learn what it really feels like!!

About the point you make about managers - agreed!

The Portugese approach during the World Cup has to ultimately fall on the responsibilities of their coach Scolari. By refusing to accept that his players were diving, rolling, falling, provoking, faking, feigning, whatever you wish to label these actions, he was handing his charges carte blanche to display all the ugly and hideous characteristics of football, and so he was actively supporting such behaviour.

To allow a talented young player like Ronaldo to play his own part in the 'uglification of football' was irresponsible, and to issue him directives to provoke the key vulnerability which was Rooney from the start (before kick-off) and at opportune points during the game, while being clever, was also a wicked manipulation of a young footballer who has the abilities to become one of the greatest in the modern era...much like Zinedine Zidane...:wallbash:

I'm not too sure the idea of having our Ronaldo exposed to the likes of Keown, Adams, and Pearce would prove too much of a success. If ever a fragile young player had a valid excuse to jump or dive out of the way of a challenge then it would be just seconds before one of those three came hurtling towards you with bone-crunching intent...:shocking:

But the Portuguese are by far the worst I have seen. As an MU supporter Woodie, you must still be fuming about the Benfica dance show last time. And the time wasting thing too - thats also really irritating - add two minutes for every minute time wasting and it will stop.


Reformation is due.

It's not so much the time-wasting that irks me - the referees are savvy enough most of the time to deal with that. What annoys me more than most is that we are still playing the game in the Dark Ages, when we have all this technology at our disposal and yet stubbornly refuse to make good use of it.

I'm also concerned about the disproportionate (to effort, attitude, and loyalty) wages that modern-day professionals 'earn'. The money could be better spent implementing the technologies which are now so necessary, what with all the diving and elbowing, etc. goin on.

Whatever happened to total football and playing the game in the true spirit that it should be played? Now i feel it's more 'total gamesmanship' than 'total football'.

Just a bunch of overpaid, overlaid, disloyal, self-minded, money-grabbing, confused (...because they don't know which club they'd prefer to be at today - when they pick up the newspapers they often have a better idea) footballers who are more concerned about their Bentley's and oneupmanship than they are about their clubs.

There are of course the exceptions - Roy Keane was a tremendous professional. Someone who learnt from his earlier mistakes and went on to set fine examples to the younger generations. Much like Eric Cantona, who also had an incident or two which he would rather forget - but he too became a model professional at the club. Ryan Giggs is anothe wonderful model professional with a great attitude - he doesn't go down too easily!

Slipper mentioned Tony Adams, Martin Keown, and Stuart Pearce, and i admired all three of those players for the examples they set and the professionalism they demonstrated on the pitch for England and their club sides respectively.

With the issues of wages and cheating and helping the referees out with decisions they are currently forced to make on the spot without any consideration, i believe that reformation is long overdue.

On the costs issues, I was listening to the Radio (that funny old faangled thing from before the ark) last night and they were discussing the differences and issues between clubs, leagues and countries.

EG Biern (sic) is £9 to get in - beer available all through the ground and game. It's apparently the biggest pub in Europe! Thing is cheap entry - make the wages and fees up on sponsors not the fans.

Some clubs kids have an area and can go in free (up to capacity) - Buy's Loyalty and future fans. Allows kids to see football with their family and mates. Many Premiership clubs = £45+ (Arsenal is £75 for some seats) with no reduction for kids. Add to that food, drink, programme, travel etc...who apart from a premiership player can afford to take a kid let alone one of thier mates to a game. My nephew is now a true Bee's Fan (Barnet) and he can go with his dad or on his own with mates (he's 12) and get the real feeling of being a week-in, week-out supporter instead of say once for his birthday and once for christmas and has to go with his dad. (his prem club is Arsenal and he's been once)

The rate of inflation on a Prem club ticket is put down to "we need extra revenue to enable us to buy the 'better' players" - Poppycock. It's because the players and their agents have pumped up the transfer and wages costs sooo high to line their pockets. The clubs believe that they NEEED big price ticketed players to make it in the league. Sorry but some teams get by with lower costing players. This season Spurs & Wigan did OK with a relatively cheap squad. Arsenal make a couple of low cost purchases and one bigger name normally and bring the youth through over several seasons as did MU at the begining of the decade.

At the end of the day they should do what they did in the States with Ice Hockey. Wage cap and cap transfer fees.

With regards the cheating. Bring in the technology. Introduce post match penalising. Have a seperate card for offences deemed un-sporting (read cheating) so that a table of cheats could be gathered. As it is there is no distinguishing a yellow for a footballing event or a deliberate act of cheating (OK a yellow by the rules is un-sporting or cheating but lets face it a late tackle happens - a leap through the air is something elsa). The Managers should also recieve a fine or card and anyone who collects say 5 in a season should be banned from the sport for a year with no income from the club to which they are signed. Lets face it the athletics associations went a long way to cleaning up their sport by having draconic penalties. Footbal and cycling should look and learn.

The rate of inflation on a Prem club ticket is put down to "we need extra revenue to enable us to buy the 'better' players" - Poppycock. It's because the players and their agents have pumped up the transfer and wages costs sooo high to line their pockets.

This season Spurs & Wigan did OK with a relatively cheap squad. Arsenal make a couple of low cost purchases and one bigger name normally and bring the youth through over several seasons as did MU at the begining of the decade.

With regards the cheating. Bring in the technology. Introduce post match penalising. Have a seperate card for offences deemed un-sporting (read cheating) so that a table of cheats could be gathered.

I like some of the points you have made here Slip. I also like the word 'poppycock' as i haven't heard that one used in quite a while - it would be a teriffic name for a cockatiel, but that's a separate issue really.

Something really must be done about player wages as part of the reformation that SO members are pressing for. I struggle to understand how anybody can justify a footballer earning £40,000-£50,000 wages (per week!) - so when you have certain professional players walking away with absurd wages which are reported to be in the £100,000-£120,000 bracket, and when you see how this money is being squandered in casinos and daily trips to the bookies, it makes a complete mockery of the genuinely hard-working folk who push through the turnstyles with their spare twenty notes twice-weekly.

I agree with you about Wigan - they are a fine example of a well-run football club and proof that Premiership survival isn't entirely dependent on attracting as many high-profile players as you can possibly afford. The same can be said of Charlton and Portsmouth, and of course Southampton were once the perennial experts at avoiding the drop.

However, I believe Tottenham are now on the verge of joining Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, and Manchester United as part of the 'big five'. They are that close aren't they. And they are now starting to spend big bucks on the players they'll require to make that challenge. But so far Martin Jol has been very shrewd and very persuasive, and it seems at long last that they now have a manager who actually does have a clue.

The idea of introducing a third card to deal with the cheat element isn't a bad one. But i really think that just allowing the officials (doesn't have to be the match referee) full access to camera replays would rid the game of all its evils. It's merely a question of whether FIFA truly do want to implement 'fair play', even at the expense of the current time constraints on football matches across the globe.

It would be a drastic overhaul, but it would see the end of disputed goals (did it cross the line??...a question i cannot believe we are still asking in the year 2006) - and i'm thinking about the Roy Carroll incident as i type, and furthermore, players would feel far too exposed to contemplate diving, elbowing, and the like.

It's strange how we can install a set of cameras to watch a group of nobodies 24 hours a day, yet still we feel it unimportant and unnecessary to do the same at football grounds around the world, where there are actually things at stake.

.The idea of introducing a third card to deal with the cheat element isn't a bad one. But i really think that just allowing the officials (doesn't have to be the match referee) full access to camera replays would rid the game of all its evils. It's merely a question of whether FIFA truly do want to implement 'fair play', even at the expense of the current time constraints on football matches across the globe.


I have thought about that before too. A Blue card for unsportsmanlike behaviour. Eg, any player directing any comments to the referee, approaching the referee to argue, suspected diving, arguing about the blue card on a suspected diving incident, etc etc, - immediate blue card. Something like three blues and your off, 10 accumulated blues and three match ban.

Get to the rugby situation where players shut up and get on with it.

three blues and your off, 10 accumulated blues and three match ban.

Get to the rugby situation where players shut up and get on with it.

I think blue is far too friendly a colour - i'd plump for brown or purple Gat.

But yeah, i wish they would 'just get on with it'!

I just can't imagine Motson shouting...

"OH NOOOO!!...HE'S RECEIVED A PURPLE!!...JOHN TERRY...WELLLL, WHAT ABOUT THAT...JOHN TERRY RECEIVES A PURPLE CARD...THAT'S HIS...YES!...THAT'S HIS SECOND OF THE GAME...WELL ONE MORE AND HE'S OFF!...HE'LL BE SENT OFF!!" :ohmy:

...it'll take some time.:good:

<motty nasal accent>

I donnt' believe it. The Ref has gone to his shorts and is showing a purple. Hee's showing the purple. Sol Cambell's not taking it. My word thats a double entry for him now. Any more like that and he'll be having a shower. Well Alan, with a double entry like that I'm sure there will be some tears.

No, they cant!

Kind of figured Blue was a rude colour as in Blue Movies so could be related to potty mouth!

Which reminds me of something else....adjourn to Travel on topic of blue.