So what " type of man " should go to prison?

Apparently Huntmaster Douglas Hill, aged 63 a farmer from Essex, who spit blood at a policeman and hit two hunt protesters with a whip was fined £250.00 and given 250 hours community service. Hill's barrister told District Judge Margaret Dodd: "He is precisely not the type of person that should go to prison."


Full story here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/4772489.stm

I agree! Why send the old codge to prison.

I'm for a public bottom spanking in the local square with a wooden paddle. Infinitely more punishing than an expensive stay in prison.

There's no martyrdom in being paddled!

So what " type of man " should go to prison?

Apparently Huntmaster Douglas Hill, aged 63 a farmer from Essex, who spit blood at a policeman and hit two hunt protesters with a whip was fined £250.00 and given 250 hours community service. Hill's barrister told District Judge Margaret Dodd: "He is precisely not the type of person that should go to prison."


Full story here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/essex/4772489.stm

Hello Seabreeze,

An interesting little news article. With an equally debatable question.

Douglas Hill was disrespectful of the officers he spat at, disrespectful of the laws governing illegal hunting, and in addition committed two seperate offences of intent to harm. In my books the penalties given are inadequate.
It is obvious here that we have a law for the rich and wealthy that exempts them from the law as applied to the rest of us.

We should all be equal in the eyes of the law.

In relation to your question this man should have been given a 12 month sentence, ordered to pay all court costs,and ordered to pay compensation to those he had assaulted.The lack of a sentence here sends out a two tiered message in relation to the jusdicial system. He is in effect at large to do this again at the next illegal hunt. He is a criminal and should be treated as such.

Maureen
Northern angel.

I agree! Why send the old codge to prison.

I'm for a public bottom spanking in the local square with a wooden paddle. Infinitely more punishing than an expensive stay in prison.

There's no martyrdom in being paddled!


Hello gatubela,

The trouble with this, is he'd enjoy it.

Or are you saying we should reintroduce the stocks or the flogging post for public displays of punishment?

Are you saying that this is a quicker and more cost efficient punishment and that the judicial system should save the money for the jailing of say rapists or murderers?

Maureen
Northern angel.

Rapists should be put in a cell with a 300 pound guy called Bubba who calls them his little kitten.

Murderers should be removed from society in the cheapest and most effective way so they dont do it again, whatever that way is.

He would enjoy it? Only in private. Get his big red flabby butt out in public and its humiliation time. A disincentive to his peers to repeat his acts.

But no, we have an aged, corrupt and unwieldy legal justice system that doesn't work. Many say it is the best there is, but Singapore's works better. Ask Michael Faye and the 99% of Singaporeans (and the 95% of Americans) who agreed with his caning.

Democracy anyone?

Hello again, Gatabela,

Are we being a bit harsh and maybe uncivil?

One of my friends is a prison officer, and he said something to me along the lines of, 'Prison can work, but it will only work as long the number of do gooders stop telling us how Prison is meant to rehabilitate people into society'. I thought the view point was harsh as Jurisprudence indicates that one of the four principals of justice is rehabilitation. He then went on to discuss at what point then does punishment mean punishment, if it is tempered with goodies from the outside. His view of Britains prisons is that they were more like holiday camps. As a sociologist and historian he fixed it up for me to do an educational visit.

At our next conversation, he was telling me about the scum of society being kept alive at tax payers costs, and that in addition the scum of society go out and repeat horrific offences against the person, and end up back in. Like you he would have advocated a policy of harsh judicial practices. Not for the sake of it being a justifiable punishent, but to save tax payers money.

No amount of reasonable comment or sociological banter could render this man's views assunder. In fact he went on to say that having come from a poor background himself and to have succeeded with a decent job, others born into a similar background would be offended, by sociological and historical classification of criminals coming from poorer sectors of society. He stood firm always speaking of his work experience, with these low lives. He was a hard man.

For me this all seems rather primitive and uncivil, not what democratic society wants.

I'm not sure of the case you mentioned;, Michael Faye. I did read of one case from singapore about 10 years ago in which an American youth was caned and given a six months prison sentence to be served in Singapore, for commiting an act of vandalism against someones car. His family pleaded that he should be referred to serve his sentence in America, and that his caning order should be cancelled. In the end the caning order was reduced from 50 strokes to 8 or 10, and the sentence, had the provisional amendment added that good behaviour would knock two months off the original sentence.

After 4 months and the American youth returned home a changed person, his family and the youth unbelievably thanked the Singopore justice system for his punishment.

Even though there appears to be a positive outcome here, I'm still not sure such severe practices would work.

MALE ON MALE RAPE MUST BE HORRENDOUS TOO. 300 LB BUBBA.

CAN TWO WRONGS EVER MAKE A RIGHT?

Maureen
Northern angel.

For me this all seems rather primitive and uncivil, not what democratic society wants.

MALE ON MALE RAPE MUST BE HORRENDOUS TOO. 300 LB BUBBA.


1. Sounds like Karl Marx. Lets think for the masses, avoid the vote.

2. Bubba: Let the rapist talk things out with Bubba and reach an agreeable compromise, just like he did with the person he raped. Male on male rape? Unthinkable. Bubba will be his judge.

I personally think he should of gone to prison.

I saw him on the news last night - and he looked like a right pompous plonker. But then i shouldnt base my opinion on prison / no prison based on his genes.

The animal rights activists might have been OTT around him and his horses BUT i still dont think that gave him the right to horse whip them. There were police around to make sure that the peace was withheld.

He then spat blood on a policeman !!! In my eyes this alone should of put him in a cell for a week.

Im sorry, but i think he got off lightly due to his breeding and money.

Hello bonsai,

I have to agree.

Maureen
Northern angel.

Apparently Huntmaster Douglas Hill, aged 63 a farmer from Essex, who spit blood at a policeman and hit two hunt protesters with a whip was fined £250.00 and given 250 hours community service. Hill's barrister told District Judge Margaret Dodd: "He is precisely not the type of person that should go to prison."

Why shouldn't he go to prison? He broke the law so he deserves some time banged up.
It's the same with that old woman who didn't pay her council tax or something and there was a big uproar about her having to spend time in the nick because she was old. Why not?
These people know full well they are breaking the law and should therefore pay the price like everyone else with a spell in prison, regardless of their age.

Why shouldn't he go to prison? He broke the law so he deserves some time banged up.
It's the same with that old woman who didn't pay her council tax or something and there was a big uproar about her having to spend time in the nick because she was old. Why not?
These people know full well they are breaking the law and should therefore pay the price like everyone else with a spell in prison, regardless of their age.


Oh PJ, the old lady didn't commit a criminal act. Non payment of council is a debt. Oo if debtors prison was reintroduced there wouldn't enough cells to hold the student population. We can't have that can we?

Maureen.
Northern angel.:thumbsup:

Oh PJ, the old lady didn't commit a criminal act. Non payment of council is a debt. Oo if debtors prison was reintroduced there wouldn't enough cells to hold the student population. We can't have that can we?

Maureen.
Northern angel.:thumbsup:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4280040.stm

Hello Maureen Northern Angel

If non payment of council tax is not an imprisonable offence, was the judge in this story guilty of a serious miscarriage of justice?

Oh PJ, the old lady didn't commit a criminal act. Non payment of council is a debt. Oo if debtors prison was reintroduced there wouldn't enough cells to hold the student population. We can't have that can we?

Maureen.
Northern angel.:thumbsup:
She wasn't just 'in debt'. She deliberately refused to pay her Council Tax, which is against the law. Therefore, it is a criminal act.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4280040.stm

Hello Maureen Northern Angel

If non payment of council tax is not an imprisonable offence, was the judge in this story guilty of a serious miscarriage of justice?


Hello Survivorfan,

What a guy, thank you for posting up a link, it is a good one. Non payment of council tax unfortunately is an imprisonable offence, I don't agree with it being so, as it harkens back into history when debtors prison was seen as the answer to people who couldn't afford to pay ordinary bills. In our reportedly more civil times, sentencing people to prison for debt has not been a popular option, but rather giving people the opportunity to pay debts at a rate they can afford without the added costs of interest is what most debtors are seeking when they agree to go to court to have arbitration. Although this is normally for amounts in excess of 500 pounds.

I don't feel debt is a criminal offence unless it is done by deception. Then the case would be fraud or embezzlement.

In the case of this pensioner the amount she is refusing to pay is less than 60pounds, it is the increase in poll tax for her region. She is refusing to pay it on grounds of principle, she obviously is a martryr to this cause and will no doubt have some following and support. The case itself should have been heard at a tribunial of council officials or in the recovery section of a local magistrates court.

In sentencing this old lady, I personally think the judge is guilty of having made a gross error of judgement. He has acrued the costs of maintaining the well being of this old lady whilst in residence in a prison and that per person is nigh on 400-500 pounds per week, the case going to court has been high profiled and will also have cost the state ex amount of pounds in legal fees and administration costs plus the writ. The writ being the least costly.

In taking everything into consideration the old lady has been treated and charged as if she were a criminal, for an amount below 60 pounds, which will still be owed by her after having served the sentence. In addition to this she will now have a criminal record whereas before she may have not had one, and as a result this will place a black mark against her name should she wish to take out a credit agreement with shops, banks, loans and finance companies, or maybe even a remortgage if her home is still on a mortgage.

Yes, I will go so far as to say the judge is guilty of a miscarriage of justice, even if that means being in the minority.

I hope that the amount of interest the story has had will result in a healthy bank balance for the old lady when she comes out.

Maureen
Northern angel.

This woman flagrantly broke a law and knowingly committed a criminal offence by repeatedly refusing to pay her tax. She went to court, was tried, found guilty and sentenced accordingly. Where's the miscarriage of justice? The argument (if there is one) could be that the judge could have levied some clemency in sentencing her.

But why should he create a precedent that says pensioners are above the law? Should therefore a pensioner who kills for financial gain also be given special rights?

As for her now having a criminal record, then that was her choice when she decided to pursue this action. I hardly think she was unaware of the consequences.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/3612003.stm

I agree with you Fee.

I think i vaguely remember this story without reading the report linked. Didnt a mystery benefactor pay off her bill - and she went mad saying how she didnt want bailing out. She was making a stand and had been quite willing to spend her allocated time in prison.

She also said she would do it again, and not pay her council tax, and would be quite willing to go back to jail.

Fine then ... go back.

Now i DO think the council tax is too steep, and i DO worry about our pensioners (i still have a granny alive aged 92 who doesnt have two pennies to rub together). But we have to pay. i would love to think 'i wont bother to pay the council tax this month' but i cant, and if i did i would have to face the consequences.

Murder and debt do not bear equal weight as causes for legal concerns.

Murder is a crime against the person.

A debt is a civil matter unless it has been acquired by fraud embezzlement and deception.

Maureen
Northern angel.

A debt is a civil matter unless it has been acquired by fraud embezzlement and deception.

Maureen
Northern angel.

That may be so, but in the laws of today it is a prison matter. People know that if they dont pay their debts, a prison sentence is looming.

Of course someone who didnt pay their council tax shouldn't be sent to a high security prison, but a low risk open prison.

Just found this:-

13. When you can be sent to prison for your debts

Being sent to prison is a great fear for many people with serious debts. In most cases, it's not very likely, since a prison sentence is a last resort, and apart from fraud (see fraud below) it can happen only for specific types of debt. These include:

you haven't paid fines from the Magistrates Court;
you haven't paid your Council Tax or business rates: or
you haven't paid maintenance for your husband, wife or children.
You can be sent to prison only if the magistrates believe that you 'won't pay' rather than 'can't pay' your debts (that is, you have deliberately refused to pay, or you have chosen to spend the money on other things you didn't truly need).

If this is the case, the court will probably make a 'suspended committal order'. This means that the magistrates will set an amount for you to pay each week or month. You will be sent to prison only if you miss any of these payments. If that happens, you will be sent a warrant to be arrested and brought before the magistrates. You cannot be sent to prison without another hearing, although you may be put in police cells overnight.

I fail to see the reason why we should take a hardline view of MS Hardy' s case. Indeed taking the entire action group to court will cost far more to the states tax payers and following this with subsequent sentences adding a further cost. The cost of collection seriously outwieghed by the amounts owed.

The 18% rise in council tax these pensioners say is unreasonable is most definitely unreasonable when taken into consideration against there ability to pay, which is far lower than those working. Also they have received a state pension rise of 1.7%, which in no way can make up the difference in the percentage of increase.

This action to take to court all these pensioners is nothing short of trying to extract blood from stone. These pensioners have a right in a free country to express there views and object to the legalised extortion of money from what little they have. I sincerely hope they are successful in achieving a legal change to their benefit.

Sometimes the law is most definitely an ass. And occassionally an ass needs kicking.

I know this is a related topic but originally the council tax was brought in and worked out according to a scale against the value of your property. You fell into a band. For some reason or other a change was supposed to take place to work it out according to an ability to pay, this is suggestive of means testing and whilst I am also *loathe about this it is a fairer way to access bills.(Due to the willful and wrongful assessment of what is wealth?)

Also what needs taking into consideration are serious changes in values within the housing market. The other day I walked into my Building Society and on the wall was an invitation for people to take financial advice, this was in regard to the rising numbers of properties which had now entered the inheritence tax threshold. This was also to assist in rendering the passing over of property or inheritence rights under strict rules governing probate/last wills and testaments, trust funds, and the creation of a seperate fund for the payments of all relevant taxes without the property value being further reduced. There was also some suggestion in attached articles that advice could be attained advantageous to families wishing to protect what is theres from serious invasion, should care services ever be needed in or out of the family home.

This brings me to the point I am making about why council tax is wrongly assessed against property values. Some properties have risen by as much 300% in the space of 5 - 7 years. If this happens to you, this means your poll tax band may well have gone through the roof. This in my view will create for some home owners a state of financial distress, especially if there incomes or pensions have not risen drastically within the said same space of time.

I think all these pensioners should take out a writ against there town councils for "FINANCIAL DISTRESS", without due consideration or cause. As such I don't believe anyone has done this; but I do know such a writ exists in civil litigation. Now that would create some news.


Maureen
Northern angel.

Hello Bonsai,

I'm pleased to say I don't class myself as having any debts. Certainly nothing for me to worry about. I do know in my student days of long ago, I had a credit card and had run up a lovely bill. On the day I'd paid it, I thought I was in the limits. The next month another bill came this time with interest charges and a late payment charge. I paid it immediatedly and then cut it up, I never had another mastercard till the present time. I am religiously diligent in keeping on top of it.

An ex boyfriend of mine however was not so organised in relation to money, and he had over a number of years prior to knowing me built up a number of debts. At first, once I knew of them. I'd stupidly go and pay them off. Then another year came and he'd acrued some more, plus some threatening letters, orders from bailiffs and court papers. Jesus what had I got myself into here. I'm sorry to tell you this but my horns came out and I took control.
My darling classical piano player whose skills had wooed me and thrilled me to bits, then realised I was going to be his angel from hell. For the second time, I'd managed to get financial matters in hand.

Great, a few months rolled on and everything seemed hunky dory. Than holy jesus more court papers arrived and tax documents, well that was it. Enough was enough. I was just looking at a case against him for tax evasion or avoidance but misdeclaration of earnings. There was also a warrant out for his arrest. Well that was it. I had done my best, I gave him back his bloody engagement ring and called off the wedding. I walked away with my emotions taut and high. I blamed myself for months and called myself a heartless bitch, at the ending of our two year 4 month relationship. I stood firm against the only man ever to have begged me to take him back, with promises to change through tears. He came to sleep at my front door, and I went home to dad thinking I'd escape the stalking. The wedding dress I'd made, still hangs in the wardrobe crisp and clean; like it had just been made yesterday.

This is an example of someone addicted to living in debt. I still find it difficult today when thinking back how he managed to acrue them, and how cleverly they were hidden in the first six months. I also wonder whether success had it arrived for him in the one area he was diligent and gifted in, if it would have made any difference. Knowone knows what the future holds.

He deserved in my view to go down, but he didn't. Instead his total payments were reduced. Asking for consideration in view of a possible counter writ for 'Financial Distress' in extenuating circumstances. Sending someone down is also as you say, a last resort.

Maureen
Probably the bitch from hell.

This brings me to the point I am making about why council tax is wrongly assessed against property values. Some properties have risen by as much 300% in the space of 5 - 7 years. If this happens to you, this means your poll tax band may well have gone through the roof. This in my view will create for some home owners a state of financial distress, especially if there incomes or pensions have not risen drastically within the said same space of time.Maureen
Northern angel.

This is incorrect. Council tax banding is based on the relative value of properties, and can only work if one fixed date is chosen. For this purpose, values at 1 April 1991 were used to fix bands, any property rises since then will not affect the banding.

How about this man?


2 charged with rape of newborn
Newborn placed with relatives after both parents arrested in McKenzie

The Jackson Sun


McKenzie police have charged two Carroll County parents with raping their child.
Jonathan Wayne Goodrum, 19, and Kristina Louise Sawyer, 18, are charged with raping their 1-day-old girl before she was taken home from McKenzie Regional Hospital about six weeks ago, said McKenzie Police Lt. Tim Nanney.
OAS_AD('ArticleFlex_1'); While both parents have been charged, Sawyer's bond was reduced because police still are investigating what role, if any, she played in the possible rape of her child, Nanney said. She was charged because "I could not exclude her from being part of it, so I had to charge her also," he said. "I could not exclude her at the time from being a participant of it."
Nanney said hospital officials notified police of the possible rape after noticing injuries to the child's rear during a routine examination given before newborns are released from the hospital.
"There were some skin tears in and around the private (back) area of the child," he said.
The investigation led to the child's parents, Nanney said, and there was no indication that any hospital worker was involved in the incident.
"Based on the investigation, we ruled out everyone but the mom and the dad," Nanney said.
The Tennessee Department of Children's Services has placed the baby girl with a relative, Nanney said. The parents are not allowed to have contact with the girl, who is now about 6 weeks old.
The couple was engaged to be married and was living at the Value Inn Motel on Highland Drive in McKenzie at the time of the incident. Sawyer is a McKenzie native, and Goodrum also has relatives living in Carroll County, though Nanney did not know his hometown. Goodrum is being held in the Carroll County Jail in lieu of $100,000 bond. Sawyer's bond was reduced to $5,000 after her arraignment. Nanney did not know if she still was being held or had been released. While no trial date has been set, Nanney said one probably would not occur before September.

Now that ^^ makes me want to bring back the death penalty if it's turns out to be proven. :cry:

How about this man?


2 charged with rape of newborn
Newborn placed with relatives after both parents arrested in McKenzie

The Jackson Sun


McKenzie police have charged two Carroll County parents with raping their child.
Jonathan Wayne Goodrum, 19, and Kristina Louise Sawyer, 18, are charged with raping their 1-day-old girl before she was taken home from McKenzie Regional Hospital about six weeks ago, said McKenzie Police Lt. Tim Nanney.
OAS_AD('ArticleFlex_1'); While both parents have been charged, Sawyer's bond was reduced because police still are investigating what role, if any, she played in the possible rape of her child, Nanney said. She was charged because "I could not exclude her from being part of it, so I had to charge her also," he said. "I could not exclude her at the time from being a participant of it."
Nanney said hospital officials notified police of the possible rape after noticing injuries to the child's rear during a routine examination given before newborns are released from the hospital.
"There were some skin tears in and around the private (back) area of the child," he said.
The investigation led to the child's parents, Nanney said, and there was no indication that any hospital worker was involved in the incident.
"Based on the investigation, we ruled out everyone but the mom and the dad," Nanney said.
The Tennessee Department of Children's Services has placed the baby girl with a relative, Nanney said. The parents are not allowed to have contact with the girl, who is now about 6 weeks old.
The couple was engaged to be married and was living at the Value Inn Motel on Highland Drive in McKenzie at the time of the incident. Sawyer is a McKenzie native, and Goodrum also has relatives living in Carroll County, though Nanney did not know his hometown. Goodrum is being held in the Carroll County Jail in lieu of $100,000 bond. Sawyer's bond was reduced to $5,000 after her arraignment. Nanney did not know if she still was being held or had been released. While no trial date has been set, Nanney said one probably would not occur before September.
That's just beyond words really, isn't it? I wouldn't have thought it was physically possible to 'rape' a newborn let alone think about doing it.
He should be castrated and she should be spayed. Without anaesthetic.