Householders could be charged according to the amount of rubbish collected from their homes under plans to reform council taxes. Sir Michael Lyons, who is conducting an inquiry into the future of local authority taxation, told The Times he was looking at a range of user charges, including environmental tariffs. They would be paid on top of the council tax in order to make the cost of services more visible, the paper reported.

The plans could allow councils to charge residents for the amount of waste they produce, raising the prospect of bags of waste being weighed by collectors.

Other possibilities include charging less to greener households and those who separate their waste.

Sir Michael said: "I am clear that if people want more services, want to tackle difficult problems like congestion, environmental sustainability and water quality ... you can't just tackle those problems and say you don't want to pay more."

The Government adviser went on to say he was studying European countries which already operate charges for waste, ranging between 25p and 50p a kilo.

His comments come as local authorities try to hit ambitious Government targets for recycling household waste.



So - what do you think ?

I personally would be quite annoyed i think if i was charged more because my rubbish bags are heavy. I tend to put out two rubbish sacks a week. One of them is always heavy as we have used cat litter in it. To make us pay extra for this would be very bad news.

As for recycling, i have no problem with doing my 'bit' for the environment, if i was provided the bins. We have a garden waste wheely bin which gets collected once a fortnight (which isnt enough in the summer as mowing our front lawn fills it), but we do always use it, and never put garden waste in our general sacks. If we were provided with bins for bottles, cans etc i would certainly use them. But we havent.

We havent even got wheely bins for our general waste.

So - your views ?

We have an awful system here. Rubbish is now colected from the front of the houses, so instead of leaving it all in one area at the back where the lorry cpuld drive up and collect, we now have to trail it round to the front once a week. No wheelie bins either.

And plastic boxes for recycling. Open plastic boxes so that everything blows away overnight.

And for garden waste, we have to buy special bags at nearly £2 a shot. A couple of flower heads and a weed and they're full.

Bone of contention round 'ere :laugh:

Rubbish is now colected from the front of the houses, so instead of leaving it all in one area at the back where the lorry cpuld drive up and collect, we now have to trail it round to the front once a week. No wheelie bins either.

And plastic boxes for recycling. Open plastic boxes so that everything blows away overnight.


We have to lug all our rubbish bags to the front of the house too - and the bags get attacked by the birds who live in the trees opposite. So many times not i have been on my hands and knees scraping up mouldy food that is scattered on the pavement due to those birds. A wheely bin would be blissful.

As for plastic recycling boxes - its more than we've got :bored:

Sadly Bonnie, I usually end up with the contents of my neighbours all over my garden. The same bloody newspaper's been getting recycled for weeks now.

My box is used for shed storage.

Hello Bonsai,

Just one or two comments here. Surprise surprise from she who writes for Britain.

The idea of charging according to the wieght of your rubbish or whether you are actively engaged in a recylcling programme to reduce bills is not new.

My final point is that it is just another way for local Governments with Central government approval to part you from your cash. Another tax and since 1997 there have been 80 tax changes or new tax legislation details inaugurated, to take more off you.

I on this count feel that council taxes are already high and that funding for this new incentive on rubbish collecting should come from an area of excessive spending. I,e the 42 billion council house makeover fund.

Maureen
Northern angel.

We have one black wheelie bin (for rubbish rubbish) and one green wheelie bin (for green rubbish) and they collect a different one each week...one week black bin the next green bin the black etc...

It's a ****** when you miss a black bin week as the rubbish is in the bin for a month!

Also, although there is lots of stuff that can be recycled now, even the green bin can only take - plastic bottles without tops, all paper (but not the yellow pages)and cardboard and all cans!

I collect my glass in a seperate bin to take to the bottle bank and use big shopping bags so as to reduce the number of carrier bags I wind up with as unless you go to Morrisons you can't recycle these (and I never go to Morrisons...even if I wanted to pop my plastic bags there I would have to pay to park unless I shopped) - there is nowhere to recyle yogurt pots or magarine tubs and the like!

I would love a garden/kitchen food (peelings) waste bin but it's a waste of time me having a compost heap since I never do anything in the garden bar hanging my washing on the line...I hate gardening!

I would pay extra if we could recycle everything that is recycleable but until we can they can kiss my finely toned bottom!

We have to lug all our rubbish bags to the front of the house too - and the bags get attacked by the birds who live in the trees opposite. So many times not i have been on my hands and knees scraping up mouldy food that is scattered on the pavement due to those birds. A wheely bin would be blissful.

As for plastic recycling boxes - its more than we've got :bored:

Hello again Bonsai,

The rubbish round my way is collected from the back. I am curious though how the local authority would know what to charge for your waste as someone elses could end up in your bin. The recycling boxes are collected once a fortnight from the front. But for some reason or other passers by can not stop themselves from going through your neatly packed box waiting for collection, which if left in an untidy fashion or appears to be overflowing, they then refuse to pick up.

The lane is always a mess and the residents are constantly having to clean up after the bin men have left. In addition to this a large proportion of the bins are not returned to there rightful gate and my gate will have about 20 around it come friday mornings.This must be annoying for people half way down the lane having to retrieve there bin.

Maureen
Northern angel.

It seems reasonable enough to me. THe more waste you produce the more the cost of disposal, so charging for volume seems appropriate. And if it encourages recycling even better.

And if it encourages recycling even better.

Recycling doesnt seem to be a problem for most ... if the relevant bins were provided.

It seems reasonable enough to me. THe more waste you produce the more the cost of disposal, so charging for volume seems appropriate. And if it encourages recycling even better.

Hello survivorfan,

I agree that it in principal it sounds reasonable to charge more for bulk, however in certain areas it isn't always your rubbish that ends up in your bin. In addition the bin men round my way do a terrible job sometimes the lane will resemble a demolition site once they have left.

Recycling is better for the environment but these boxes should have lockable lids to deter those with wandering hands leaving a mess.

More areas should have recycling bin points to cover for excess amounts.

Maureen
Northern angel

Ive just had a bit of a gander around our county council website - and apparently we are being issued new bins !!

10,000 have been produced, and they are hoping everyone in Suffolk will have these new bins by 2010.

Basically there will be a standard wheely bin for general rubbish collected weekly. There will also be another bin for cardboard, magazines, paper etc ....

Good, thats precisiely what we need.

I mean, we all pay our council tax, and i thought rubbish collection was part of that fee. Maybe a lot of you feel you get value for money from your council tax, but i dont.

We dont get bin bags, we havent any street lighting. The grass verges are cut by the prisoners near by, and i pay a separate bill for that (about £40 a year). I dont mind that section of council tax that goes towards the police - but what am i getting for my council tax ? I suppose i am paying towards the upkeep of Woodbridge which is about 10 miles from my house ?

The resedents of a local estate near me was told that the reason why they, unlike evryone else in the town, didn't have any recycling bins was because they all voted against it...this when we had no choice. My work chum who lives on the estate looked into this and found that the real reason why they didn't have recycling on the estate was because the bins allocated to them were destroyed in a fire!

She got onto our local Green councellor and explained the situation and so a survey was conducted by that councellor and the result was practically everyone on the estate wanted to recycle...so hopefully soon they will have that option! :applause:

we've turned into green nutters over here in dirty auld dublin.

For years now we've had black wheelies with computer chips in them for unrecyclable waste. You get charged e4.00 for each pick-up, plus a weight charge.

The green bin collection is free, but can only contain paper, card and aluminium.

We all have these huge composters now for heavy sh.it - veggie peels, soggy tea bags - anything that will compost, which is great for da garden [and it saves a few bob on that fekkin weight charge:sly: ]

There's a mandatory charge for plastic bags here, so everyone brings their own reusable bags to the shops.

Our copious amounts of gargle bottles are brought once a week to the bottle bank, and you try not to look too embarrassed as you hurl the fifteenth bottle of smirnoff in the white glass only bin......

hic. where was I?

Our copious amounts of gargle bottles are brought once a week to the bottle bank, and you try not to look too embarrassed as you hurl the fifteenth bottle of smirnoff in the white glass only bin......

hic. where was I?

Admit it...you wouldn't bother with bottles if you didn't think they would take them away and turn them into more bottles that can contain more booze! :sly:

It seems reasonable enough to me. THe more waste you produce the more the cost of disposal, so charging for volume seems appropriate. And if it encourages recycling even better.

So presumably you would agree that if you send your children to private school, if you very rarely call on the emergencey services, if you drink bottled water and if you carry the cost of re-tarmacking your own drive that your concil tax should be reduced?

So presumably you would agree that if you send your children to private school, if you very rarely call on the emergencey services, if you drink bottled water and if you carry the cost of re-tarmacking your own drive that your concil tax should be reduced?

What do you think Groucho?

Its logic vs what is realistic to administer. To the extent that we can tax based on usage, its fair, but there is that point where monitoring the usage costs more than the savings from doing so. A line needs to be drawn. Rubbish may, or may not, be a good example of a potentially feasible usage tax. Using emergency services is probably a good example of where usage taxes don't work. Just a question of what we feel is achievable for the greater good.

Just a question of what we feel is achievable for the greater good.

In terms of blandness, I quite like this statement.

It covers most of the things that are inadequate about local government.

So presumably you would agree that if you send your children to private school, if you very rarely call on the emergencey services, if you drink bottled water and if you carry the cost of re-tarmacking your own drive that your concil tax should be reduced?

You're right, it does raise the question of whether, in general, people should pay for what they use rather than everyone paying equally.

Obviously in many cases they do, such as where consumption can be metered like power, phones, water etc. I'm sure that in such cases people wouldn't be happy to subsidise heavy users - you and I wouldn't want to pay for someone's excessive phone calls - so I'm not sure what makes rubbish production any different.

As Guatabela pointed out, there are many cases where it's not feasible to measure usage and charge accordingly, so some things are no-nos.

Continuing the tangent I am going off on, there's one thing I would like to see people charged for and that's the unnecessary use of emergency services such as hosptial a&e and police. I'm thinking here of drunken ****s at pub closing time getting into fights and having to be hauled off by the police or ending up in hospital for treatment where they're often difficult and abusive with staff. I don't like having to pay for their irresponsibility - I say bill 'em before you treat 'em and if they won't pay let them bleed.

You're right, it does raise the question of whether, in general, people should pay for what they use rather than everyone paying equally.

That sounds fair to me.

Obviously in many cases they do, such as where consumption can be metered like power, phones, water etc. I'm sure that in such cases people wouldn't be happy to subsidise heavy users - you and I wouldn't want to pay for someone's excessive phone calls - so I'm not sure what makes rubbish production any different.

As Guatabela pointed out, there are many cases where it's not feasible to measure usage and charge accordingly, so some things are no-nos.

I half heartedly agree here, but if you are one of these who makes a real effort not to do excesses, your recylcling box is not full of heavy stella bottles and cans, you've recyled the newspapers Rolled up before puting on the coke for a traditional brick barbeque, and some kitchen waste for composting, why should you pay the same as everyone else. The difficulty is a minor issue, the refuse collectors could leave a check list with you after each collection.

Continuing the tangent I am going off on, there's one thing I would like to see people charged for and that's the unnecessary use of emergency services such as hosptial a&e and police. I'm thinking here of drunken ****s at pub closing time getting into fights and having to be hauled off by the police or ending up in hospital for treatment where they're often difficult and abusive with staff. I don't like having to pay for their irresponsibility - I say bill 'em before you treat 'em and if they won't pay let them bleed.

Oh don't get hard on such matters. :unsure: It could be you out one Friday night and some lout pulls a punch on you, and it could be you that needs the help. When reading something like this I can't help but think of the A & E facilities being offered to those whose insurance is not fully paid in America, any treatment thus becomes served on a charity basis, not very good. I am not saying here that abusive and violent behaviour is to be tolerated, but in the event of someone with an injury that needs treatment first, addressing irresponsible behaviour should come second. Public disorder arrests, charges and cases with resulting penalities being very high fines and the loss of rights to claim under criminal injuries, unless you are accessed as the innocent party by an officer of the law and a medic.

Maureen
Northern angel.

You're right, it does raise the question of whether, in general, people should pay for what they use rather than everyone paying equally..

So would this cover things like schools. Should people without children pay for schools and their upkeep, child benefit etc ?

I think it'd get a little bit complicated if we all just paid for what we used. It's like going out for a meal with friends and then totting up who had what at the end.

So would this cover things like schools. Should people without children pay for schools and their upkeep, child benefit etc ?

I suppose that you could argue 'no', but even if you don't have children, you might prefer to live somehere where there are decent schools and not mind contributing - decent schools can make for a decent neighbourhood. And you never know, you might be childless now but who knows what's round the corner?

I think it'd get a little bit complicated if we all just paid for what we used. It's like going out for a meal with friends and then totting up who had what at the end.

Some people prefer to do it that way though. If you have a sandwich and a coke and your mate has entrecote and bottle of Chateau Lafite would you be happy to split the bill 50-50?

Up til this year our rubbish was collected from the garden via the back alley that runs behind these terraced properties.

Then we were told, like a lot of other areas it seems, that the rubbish had to be taken to the front of the house and left by the front garden wall as no more collections would be made from the rear gardens.

The problem is that I live in an upstairs flat so I have to take my rubbish down the back stairs to the garden bin and then the night before bin collection it has to be brought back upstairs and through the flat and down the front stairs :sad:

I think that charging by weight would just result in some people fly tipping their rubbish elsewhere.