After reading some of Coastie's comments in the Ted Bundy thread, it got me thinking about abusive relationships. Would you stay if someone was physically abusing you? If so, why? If not, why? What about if someone was verbally abusing you?

Answers on a postcard please. ;)

It wasn't physical abuse, it was control. He never did anything that wasn't in HIS best interests, and he never understood that. He was manipulative and believed his own mantra.

So I left.

I think it very much depends on how low your self esteem has sunk as a result of any sort of abuse. If someone says something to you enough times, I guess you'll start to believe it. That's how they control you.

What If They don't hit you and don't verbally abuse you
but they ignor you and have one night stands is that just as bad

At what stage do you realise that your relationship is abusive?

Everyone would like to think that they would walk away the moment a relationship became abusive in any way, but how would you tell?

Every couple argues. They shout and scream at each other, they insult and accuse. Some people chuck things at their partner in frustration. Is that abuse?

Most people try to "control" their partner too. They set standards for what is acceptable to them and what is not (e.g. once a week out on the lash alone is OK provided you come home. Most nights of the week is really not OK, no matter what you did before you met me!). Is this manipulative abuse?

I think most people genuinely would leave if they knew that their relationship was abusive in any way. The trick is recognising when the relationship has moved outside the boundaries of normalcy, and into the realms of abuse.

At what stage do you realise that your relationship is abusive?

Everyone would like to think that they would walk away the moment a relationship became abusive in any way, but how would you tell?

Every couple argues. They shout and scream at each other, they insult and accuse. Some people chuck things at their partner in frustration. Is that abuse?

Most people try to "control" their partner too. They set standards for what is acceptable to them and what is not (e.g. once a week out on the lash alone is OK provided you come home. Most nights of the week is really not OK, no matter what you did before you met me!). Is this manipulative abuse?

I think most people genuinely would leave if they knew that their relationship was abusive in any way. The trick is recognising when the relationship has moved outside the boundaries of normalcy, and into the realms of abuse.


Whats normal ? Thats the thing

some men belive in the treat the mean keep them keen and on some woman it works because they like it
is that normal

At what stage do you realise that your relationship is abusive?

Everyone would like to think that they would walk away the moment a relationship became abusive in any way, but how would you tell?

Every couple argues. They shout and scream at each other, they insult and accuse. Some people chuck things at their partner in frustration. Is that abuse?

Most people try to "control" their partner too. They set standards for what is acceptable to them and what is not (e.g. once a week out on the lash alone is OK provided you come home. Most nights of the week is really not OK, no matter what you did before you met me!). Is this manipulative abuse?

I think most people genuinely would leave if they knew that their relationship was abusive in any way. The trick is recognising when the relationship has moved outside the boundaries of normalcy, and into the realms of abuse.

I'd prefer to look at the definition of abuse. Is regular violence accepted in a relationship if so why? Some women and indeed men tolerate violence from there partners as if it were normal. The continuation of this violence from childhood home and to marriage or a relationship seems to self perpetuate.
Someone said to me once there are no ladies of any self respect in a ladies refuge, they are all rough and ready.So you think that's a bit to judgemental isn't it, does someone think they deserved it?

So you visit one because a friend of yours has been married for 15 years to a man who regularly beats her up after having a drink. The women sit in the lounge with there children and you know, I think thank God theres somewhere for them to go. Thank god they could see some sense, and they've terminated an abusive realtionship. There is some light at the end of the tunnel.

I don't think abuse and control are one and the same. Manipulation or the exercise of persuasion can be a negative or positive factor in a relationship. It is not so long ago that Mr M, took one look at a dress I was wearing, decided it wasn't decent encouraged me to go home and change. That dress is now a skirt.

Maureen
Northern angel.

Whats normal ? Thats the thing

Good question. Each person perception of "normal" might be different.

some men belive in the treat the mean keep them keen and on some woman it works because they like it
is that normal

Well yeah to them it would be. But then, its not abuse if both couples actually like it, is it?

It would only be abuse if the man was playing the "treat them mean" game, and the woman was actually suffering because of it.

Physical abuse is obvious. Its the mental abuse which is harder to spot.

What If They don't hit you and don't verbally abuse you
but they ignor you and have one night stands is that just as bad

yes i think so, because it's still de-valueing you as a person.

i would never put up with someone abusing me wether it be verbal or physical, you have to have some self worth or you have nothing.

I can honestly say I wouldn't take any abuse from a partner. I do and always will hate bullies and that is what an abusive partner, in anyway shape or form, amounts to to me...a bully. I have stood up to them all my life either for myself (which was very rarely necessary) or on the behalf of others. I hate bullies!

Like Dol mentioned the whole issue of self esteme is key. One side of an abusive relationship usually has a fairly low self-esteme from the start. This is then re-inforced by the abusive partner to a point where the abused feels they will never be able to do any better and so rather than be alone, in a world they now feel incapable of facing alone, they stay.

Read Pats instead of Dol in my above thread...:blush:

It must be an age thing...I seem to have more brain farts lately than I ever have had in my life before! :bag:

This short list defines what is considered abuse.

Being bullied, threatened, called names , put down and humiliated by a partner, ex partner or member of your family
Being controlled;- isolated from family and friends, Harrassed and questioned if you go out, Having money or benefits taken from you, Denied access to the phone, not being allowed to make decisions
Having your property destroyed
Threats being made against yourself, your children, your family, your pets
Being physically assaulted or harmed
Forced into unwanted sex


If you have experienced abuse or know of someone suffering from abuse the following details may convice them to seek help.

You are not alone 1 in 4 women will experience domestic abuse in their lifetime, and there is a rising number of men who also suffer abuse at the hands of their respective partners.

It is not your fault and you have a right to an abuse free life.

2 women are killed every week by their abusive partners or ex partners,
a woman may be assaulted up to 35 times or more before she seeks help, this can total many years of abuse.

You have a right to protection under the law and a right to housing.

(No apologies for 3 post cards of information, important subject useful information.)

Useful numbers...
police 999
ESCAPE DRUGS SUPPORT HELP LINE 0770 2833944
NATIONAL DOMESTIC ABUSE HELPLINE FREEPHONE;- 0808 2000247
SAMARITANS 0845 7909090
NSPCC HELPLINE CHILDREN 0808 8005000


You should also keep other handy phone numbers regarding housing departments refuge centres listening post etc as they may be able to help when the time arrives to need it.

SAFETY PLANNING. IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE.



Money including change for phone calls and transport.
Emergency phone numbers
Benefit books, NHS number, Banbk books, Rent Book, Marriage and birth certifcates, Driving license, Court injunctions or court orders.
Spare house keys.
Medications for yourself and the children.
Your child's favourite toy.
you may want to leave an emergency bag with a trusted friend and this should include toiletries and a change of clothes.
Your mobile phone, charger and top up card.


Toleration does not mean puting up with abuse, it could cost your life.

Hoping this assists anyone caught in this predicament.

Maureen
Northern angel.

One of my friends is Project Coordinator for a Womens Refuge here in the Midlands......

this friend started her counselling work with me as a volunteer Drug/Solvent Counsellor many moons ago, she then ended up in a very volatile relationship, where he slowly but surely stripped away every bit of self esteem and self confidence, we as her friends warned and warned her, but she always came back with "yeah I know what you are saying is right but he has severe issues himself and I can see the good in him and I love him".......

eventually, the pair of them went off travelling, he abandoned her on the other side of the world after a very nasty beating, and had the nerve to come back here and tell ME "yeah, I admit, it got physical, but you dont know what she is like, you didnt have to live with her".......Errrrrr, WRONG, she is one of my bestest friends and I DID know what it was like to live with her as we had shared a flat for 3 years before she took up with him.....

Thankfully, she eventually returned from the Far East, healed physically, and was then healed emotionally with therapy, she then jumped at the change to work with women who had suffered domestic violence as she felt that she could do something to help with a far better understanding as she had been there herself......

I lived with a guy many years ago, and HE was mentally abusive, I was drained of my self confidence, all because HE WAS INSECURE (I realise now).....I ate to block it out, I went from a size 12/14 to a size 26 within a couple of years.......It took me YEARS to lose the weight and I am now a size 16 aiming for a 14 once im up and about again properly!

I think it can be very easy for us to say I will never put up with it - I have said it myself and HOPE and PRAY that should I ever end up in the dating game again, if I met a complete f***wit I would spot it a mile off.....but until you have had your confidence stripped by an intimidating BULLY, then I dont think any of us can say hand on heart how we would deal with it!

Isis,

What a truly emotive post, I feel like crying. Also very apt to. I hope your friend has not been scarred for life by her experience.

Maureen
Northern angel.

well i would like to think that i wouldnt stand for it. but i suppose until you are there its never easy to tell. you know it would be all so easy to sit back and judge others and say "i would never be like that i wouldnt stand for it for one minute!" but you know i dont think its as easy as that. i suppose its a slow process until one day it hits you (quite literally) that this is wrong!

I can understand people saying 'You don't know how you would react until you have been there' but I am more than confident I would walk away and take whatever action I could against any partner that tried to abuse me...

I know that some people stick with an abusive partner as they feel they can help him/her to become a better but I am not one of those. I am about as much use as an emotional crutch as a lettuce leaf would be in protecting you from the fall out of a nuclear attack...Main reason being I have too much of the 'Oh get over it' attitude and have never had time for people who wallow in self-pity or blame issues of their past for their failings in the present...my patience is very lacking when it comes to anyone who dwells too much on the negative...hence I would make a crap councellor...a really, really crap councellor...I would at times like to be more empathetic like when my friends nan died and she was incredibly upset...all I could do was give her a hug...inside I was thinking 'People die'...I was upset when my nan died but part of me was like 'Well she had a good innings!':unsure:

I have a couple of friends involved in councelling...one in a similar role as yours Isis...I have nothing but respect and admiration for those who do the job as they help people through so many awful experiences and so give them a chance to live again instead of being trapped by thier demons...Councellors have the patience of saints and deserve more recognition than they get.

In a way Coastie you have hit upon a point. It is normally certain types of people that end up with abusive partners. Normally having been through some kind of abuse (even though it may not have been obvious to them) as a child. It seems you were brought up in a way that gave you a good self-concept, which makes you very lucky, as unfortunately it is not the norm. :)

My first marriage was a violent one. I stayed for three years. I give myself credit for that as I don't think I would have stayed that long had I not been stuck in America with no friends or family around me.

What tends to happen in abusive relationships, is that an abusive person will tend to pick a person with a relatively poor self-concept already and then bring that self-concept down even more, before the physical abuse starts. So by the time the person is getting physically abused, their self-concept is so low that they tend to feel they deserve it, or have fallen under the abusers spell which is quite common. The spells consists of the abuser leading the abusee to think that they (the abuser) can't help it, they've had a bad childhood, they won't hit again, they are so sorry, they will change etc etc. The abusee, because they love or 'depend' upon that person so much wants to believe it so much that they stay. There really is a question of 'love' in this kind of a relationship. Also I'm wondering from the abusee's point of view, is there a need to 'save' someone from their issues?

I married again and was wise enough (thank goodness) not to get into the same kind of a relationship, which so often happens. My husband is wonderful to me, and we have a good relationship. Some people sadly repeat the cycle over and over.

But I do look back on my childhood and now can see that my parents did abuse me, albeit not so obviously. Being a counselling student has helped me to see that and realise why my own self-concept was so poor as for me to allow myself to be in an abusive relationship. Now I am in a much healthier position with a healthier self-concept, and one thing I would like to do as a counsellor is to help those where I have been before.