We don't use one, and even though I think paying for what you use is fairer than a set rate, I'm convinced that my family's bill would go up if we were on a meter - even though I did this questionnaire and we came out lower than average users http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/5086298.stm

I'd be interested to know what we would pay if we were metered. The questionnaire suggests we use around 350 litres per day. On a meter we'd play a flat charge plus X per litre used.

Anyone here have a meter, if so what's the flat charge and charge per litre?

Also - any strong views on whether water meters are great/a rip off/etc?

I have had a water meter in all of my three houses, and i pay a lot less than my parents - who pay rates.

I think for a couple who are out all day and use the washing machine maybe 2-3 times a week its much cheaper. But i have heard that families who use the washing machine lots and run a lot of baths would pay more on a meter than if they paid rates.

I know im much happier on a meter.

Any idea what you pay for the flat charge and price per litre?

Ill dig out a bill, hang on.

OK - ive found one, but i dont know what to tell you !!!

I pay separate sewage and fresh water.

The sewage is about £140 every 6 months.

This is what it says on the fresh water bill - although i dont understand it !!

Standing charge 015mm @ £20.50 a year
Domestic Consuption charge 16 M3 @ 73.64p.

The fresh water bill was £11.78 for a quarter, with a standing charge of £4.16.

Does this help ?

We don't use one, and even though I think paying for what you use is fairer than a set rate, I'm convinced that my family's bill would go up if we were on a meter - even though I did this questionnaire and we came out lower than average users http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/5086298.stm

I'd be interested to know what we would pay if we were metered. The questionnaire suggests we use around 350 litres per day. On a meter we'd play a flat charge plus X per litre used.

Anyone here have a meter, if so what's the flat charge and charge per litre?

Also - any strong views on whether water meters are great/a rip off/etc?


Water meters are the fairest way to charge for water services but it really depends on the size of your family and the rateable value of your property, whether you would be better off on a meter or not.

The company I worked for would say that an average persons bill would be around £100 per year (water & wastewater charges including service charge). So an average 4 person family would use around £400 per year.

This is only a guide as some would use more and some less than average. Each water company sets their own charges so they do vary from one area to another.

If you have a high rateable value then unless you have a very large family you are normally better off on a meter but if you have a low rateable value and a large family then rates is normally cheaper.



I hope that helps SF!

It does thanks, I guess if I need the actual rates I should ask Thames Water.

It does thanks, I guess if I need the actual rates I should ask Thames Water.


Yes they would be able to advise you, depending on your rateable value and your estimated consumption whether you would benefit from a water meter. My advice would be though, unless you would make a large saving then stay on rateable value, as on a water meter you pay for what you use, including water lost from a dripping tap, children leaving taps running accidentally etc.

I would probably save money...according to the calculation the average person uses 155 ltrs a day...in my house, because I drum heads together about this issue all the time, we use on averag 55 ltrs a day!

mind you you can add about 16 ltrs to that when it comes to the amount of water used for drinking and cooking!

This is what it says on the fresh water bill - although i dont understand it !!

Standing charge 015mm @ £20.50 a year
Domestic Consuption charge 16 M3 @ 73.64p.

The fresh water bill was £11.78 for a quarter, with a standing charge of £4.16.

Bons the Domestic Consumption bit is showing that you've used 16 cubic metres of water in the Quarter, at a charge of 73.64p per cubic metre.

The Standing Charge bit is harder to figure out, as £4.16 isn't a quarter of £20.50!

SF - Do Thames supply your clean water? If so, you can find their charges here: http://www.thameswateruk.co.uk/en_gb/Downloads/PDFs/PBS_Charges_2006-07_Metered_99kb.pdf
Seems they're a bit dearer than Bons's supplier.
Thames give some advice on your likely water usage here:
http://www.thameswater.co.uk/UK/region/en_gb/content/General/General_Image_Below_000108.jsp?SECT=General_Image_ Below_000108

An old lady we knew changed to a water meter so she could save money and there wasnt that much difference. Although I suspect water meters will become mandatory for all of us in the near future.

An old lady we knew changed to a water meter so she could save money and there wasnt that much difference. Although I suspect water meters will become mandatory for all of us in the near future.

Yeah i think they will. Im sure that every new house built now comes with a meter - and im sure they will ask everyone to move over to one soon - installing them for free.

Ill dig out a bill, hang on.

OK - ive found one, but i dont know what to tell you !!!

I pay separate sewage and fresh water.

The sewage is about £140 every 6 months.

This is what it says on the fresh water bill - although i dont understand it !!

Standing charge 015mm @ £20.50 a year
Domestic Consuption charge 16 M3 @ 73.64p.

The fresh water bill was £11.78 for a quarter, with a standing charge of £4.16.

Does this help ?

Now this is what I don't get - you believe it's cheaper for you to be on a meter right, but my water rates cover fresh water + sewage, and they're I'm not sure what but around £300 a year I think.

You're paying £280 a year just for sewage, with your water bill on top - that's an extra £70 or so, making £350. So mine works out cheaper, which seems wrong, seeing as there's just two of you.

I suspect water meters will become mandatory for all of us in the near future.

I doubt it will be in the near future MR, it will come though. But it will be years, if not decades before they are made mandatory. At the moment, water companies install meters in to all new properties and can now install meters in properties when they change owners/tennants. But my local water company is only installing meters in to exciting properties that change hands in Sussex and not the rest of their area at the moment as that is a major job in itself. The next stage will be to extend it to all areas but I personally feel it will a long time before legistation is brought in from the goverment to allow water companys to be able to install waters meters in every property with out a change of ownship/tenant.

Now this is what I don't get - you believe it's cheaper for you to be on a meter right, but my water rates cover fresh water + sewage, and they're I'm not sure what but around £300 a year I think.

You're paying £280 a year just for sewage, with your water bill on top - that's an extra £70 or so, making £350. So mine works out cheaper, which seems wrong, seeing as there's just two of you.


£350 a year does seem very high for 2 people, I would say an average 2 person family uses around £220 a year, even given that all water companies set their own charges that is a lot more than I would expect.


Sf..... if your water bill on the rateable value works out at about £300 for the 4 of you, I would say that you would be worse off on a water meter unless you really were very, very economical with your water.


Of course the fairest way is that everyone pays for what they use and that is why water companies are trying to encourage people to have meters installed. But at the end of the day the only other way for them to charge is by the old rateable value....

I checked and we're paying £381, even so, looking at Mik's Thames Water link, we'd be charged £1.40 per cubic metre on a meter which is twice Bonsai's rate! I guess THames has to recover for all those leaky pipes (200 litres per day per household last I read, that's more than half what we use).

The charges in my area are
Water Supply 76p per cm & Wastewater 129.4p per cm

Bonsai's - water supply is 73.64p per cm so I would suspect that her wastewater charges are similar to the ones in my area.

So going from the info given it looks like Thames water is cheaper than both Bonsai's and my are to me. Although it looks like they have their charges around the wrong way on their website as wastewater charges are normally higher than water supply charges.

When working out your charges, you need to take in to consideration, that of 100 cm of fresh water used, you are only charged for 92.5cm of wastewater.

Did I do my maths wrong? On Mik's link it gives example appliances, how much water they use and the cost of that water.

50 litres costs 7p, so at 1000 litres per cubic metre that's 20x 7p or £1.40 per cubic metre. I make that roughly twice what you and Bonsai pay for yours. Admittedly that doesn't sound right but that's what it says in the blurb.

WOuld that include sewage charges, or is that extra?

Hmm that is really a very rough guide and not very actuate from what I can see. It is said that an average person uses around 50cm per year so I would use that when working out what you are likely to use and then add on a bit more if you water your garden, wash your car/s, fill paddling pools etc.

Your charges are Water supply 95.10p per cm & Wastewater 47.49p per cm
(although I suspect that the website have those charges around the wrong way as I have never known a water company charge more for water supply than wastewater collection) plus standing charges! Which is £23 (water supply) & 24.50 (wastewater) a year!

So a lot less than what my water company charges.


Edit - I should point out that I left the water company I worked for around 9 months ago, so my knowledge is not bang upto date but part of my job was to advise customers whether or not they could be better off on a water meter or not!

Right, so it looks like that £1.40 I came up with was water + waste.

Well at that rate, using the other guide I did that said we us 350 litres a day that would give an annual usage of around 130000 litres or 130 cm which would cost about £200 plus £50 standing charge. That's a fair bit less than we pay now, but I bet we actully use more than the guide suggests, so I woon't risk it!

350l/d is midget for a family - do you only wash once a week???

Once every ten days.

Anyway, how much does your lot use?

I bet we actully use more than the guide suggests, so I woon't risk it!

I would be very surprised if you only used 130cm a year SF. I think you would use between 175cm - 250cm a year.

Once every ten days.

Anyway, how much does your lot use?
Christ knows - we're not metered.

Given the amount of washing that Mrs Mik does, we're probably responsible for a couple of these Olympic-size swimming pools that are supposedly leaking from the system each day :)

Water meters are the fairest way to charge for water services but it really depends on the size of your family and the rateable value of your property, whether you would be better off on a meter or not.

The company I worked for would say that an average persons bill would be around £100 per year (water & wastewater charges including service charge). So an average 4 person family would use around £400 per year.

This is only a guide as some would use more and some less than average. Each water company sets their own charges so they do vary from one area to another.

If you have a high rateable value then unless you have a very large family you are normally better off on a meter but if you have a low rateable value and a large family then rates is normally cheaper.



I hope that helps SF!

Hello ils,

My water is unmetered. I have contemplated switching to metered for ecological reasons. But I'm a bit concerned that the rateable value of your property should come into it.

Surely if charges are based on what you use than the rateable value of your property should not alter your bill?

I am also thinking here do lower income families get a discount or rebate if they have more than 2 children say, as there bills could be high?

Maureen
Northern angel.

Hello ils,

My water is unmetered. I have contemplated switching to metered for ecological reasons. But I'm a bit concerned that the rateable value of your property should come into it.

Surely if charges are based on what you use than the rateable value of your property should not alter your bill?

I am also thinking here do lower income families get a discount or rebate if they have more than 2 children say, as there bills could be high?

Maureen
Northern angel.

If you are unmetered NA, then your charges will be based on the rateable value of your property. The goverment and ofwat have agreed with all water companys that is the only way they can charge if their is not a meter installed.

Obviously metering is the fairest way to charge for water and wastewater disposal but until every property has a meter then they had to have another way to charge and this is what was used before meters where widely available.

Once you are charged on a water meter, then the rateable value does come in to it anymore, it is only when a property is not metered they use the rateable value to calculate charges.

If a large low income family is on a water meter then sometimes they are intitled to have it capped to an average rateable value charge.

It really depends what your charges are and how many people use your supply whether you would be better or worse off on a meter or not! Generally I would say if you have a high rateable value and a use very little water then you are better off on a meter, but if you have a low rateable value but have a high consumption then you are better off being charged by ratable value.

But you really don't have a choice, once a property has a meter installed you generally can't revert to unmeasured charges.

HTH

Hello Ils,

Thank you. For the information, which will come in useful to me this year.

I am busy pulling my flat to pieces for major changes to maintain and upgrade and in addition to this another flat is in the process of being done for when my student tenants return.

They have asked for metered water.

Maureen
Northern angel.

My water is unmetered. I have contemplated switching to metered for ecological reasons.

You don't need a meter to help the environment - all you need to do is use less water :)

In fact, it'd be more environmentally unfriendly to get the meter, as it would require workmen to drive to your flat to install the meter.

I tried out the BBC water use calculator:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/5086298.stm

Here's the result:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/mikado/mikwater.jpg

Lower than I expected. Anyone else want to compare?

That seems really low Mik - mine's more than that and there's only me here most of the time.

Can't work out how to copy the result either :huh: Edit - now I can :)

:laugh:

Well the good news is that you apparently use about 300 litres per day showering. You must be an outstandingly clean person :)

I can't get the damned spot out :mellow:

In the street where my parents live, when a house is sold its mandatory that a water meter goes in (if the old owners were on rates). One woman I know reckons it costs her a fortune so just gets her neighbour (on rates) to fill up a big water butt in the garden that she uses for all her gardening needs.

I've never had a meter and up here the rates are included with your council tax. I reckon I might be better off on a meter as at the moment I use virtually no water do to high electric bill (oops sorry, am feeling bitter about that :D)

I just did the water calculator and its 165 litres a day when I'm having baths (1 bath a day) and nearly half that at present.