I'm guessing everyone wants to avoid this topic!

I just think its a shame that the Lebanese are trying their best to build a country, but can't because of Hezbullah.

Without Hezbullah, the Israelis would be quiet neighbors. Keep firing rockets in, what sort of result can you expect in that tinderbox region? The result was intended, thats why Hezbullah did it.

Funded by the Iranians and Syrians? Legally, look for motive. G8 meeting, top of the agenda iran's nuclear policy - lets use our monkeys in Lebanon to create an issue to take us off the agenda - abduct some Israeli soldiers as we know what happens next.

All boys with toys and historical agendas. I hope the Israelis do enough that the Lebanese government can take control of their country in the aftermath.

I'm not sure there who the good guys are, but I'm pretty sure the bad guys are Hezbullah.

Afterthought: Will the Iranians get directly involved? Err, no. They know very well that Israel has strike plans to wipe out their nuclear development (again), and the US is just itching that that would happen. So it is contained, the Iranians and Syrains abusing Lebanon as a proxy for their agendas. A innocent country being used as a chessboard, and Lebanese children are dying because of these goverment games. Enough to make one angry.

The Lebanese government never had control gatubela.

They took the decision to allow Hezbollah to control their southern border.

Hezbollah are basically an instrument of the Iranians, consequently, it was a recipe for disaster.

This situation has is a result of Hezbollah piggy backing on the situation started by Hamas further south.


I totally abhor the strength of the response by Israel, but one can understand their need to appear to display overwhelming power when they are surrounded by perceived enemies who would happily see them wiped off the face of the planet.

I dont know what the answer is.

I hope thats the agenda grouch, to give the Lebanese goverment control.

I hope so.

That's what the Israelis want as I undersatnd it, Lebanese forces patrolling their own borders.

I feel like I should post on this thread because its a subject that I feel quite strongly about (bit surprised that anyone has started a thread on it actually!). But really, I'm a bit too p!shed having had a long lunch in good company to give the subject a considered response.

Keep it on ice. I'll be coming back to this one.......

What's happening in Lebanon just now is dreadful. An entire nation is being crushed because of an attack by a militant group (Hezbollah) on an Israeli military target. Israel (quite justifiably) had to respond, but their response has been hugely and unnecessarily overbearing. Israel is bombing Lebanon indisciminantly, and many innocent Lebanese citizens are suffering by this response.

There are two group responsible for this: Hezbollah and the Nation of Israel. I don't know how you would go about punishing or controlling Hezbollah, but the Israelis could easily be called to task if America were to withdraw support for their actions (both financial and verabl support). The fact that America seemingly supports this destruction of the Lebanon nation is further proof that Human Rights is very low down on their agenda. Innocent people are being crushed, their lives wrecked, their country ruined and Israel is at fault. And America supports them in this unfair destruction.

Just as worrying is the media support, which I have witnessed over here. The British media is reporting with a heavy bias in favour of the Israeli aggression.

Frankly, it all sucks.

There are two group responsible for this: Hezbollah and the Nation of Israel.

I think you can add Syria and Iran to the mix, and therefore the US (and probably UK) on the other side.

The situation in Lebanon is dreadful, but I believe it's a pawn in something much bigger. And that worries me more.

I think you can add Syria and Iran to the mix, and therefore the US (and probably UK) on the other side.


Thats probably quite true, although I think did imply US responsbility in my earlier post.

The situation in Lebanon is dreadful, but I believe it's a pawn in something much bigger. And that worries me more

Could you expand on that? I'm appalled by this situation and I'm genuinely interested in knowing more.

I think (and this is my interpretation only) that the Syrians - and probably Iran - would be quite happy for the Israelis to give them the excuse to rush to the 'aid' of Lebanon, thus giving them the chance to get back more control, overtly or otherwise.

Equally, the great and good that is US/UK will continue to support the Israelis behind the scenes, because there's enough flak coming their way over the Iraq debacle.

That's not a sustainable - or containable situation.

Hezbollah were effectively created and armed by the Iranian Republican Guard during the Israeli occupation of Lebanon, way back when.

It is generally believed that the Iranians now use Hezbollah to strike at Israel in response to acts of aggression by the US towards the Arab world in general and Iran in particular, such as Iraq, Iranian nuclear development etc.

Figaro's point about US support for Israel is true, however, without that support Israel would be open to likely attack from several quarters, which wouldn't solve the problem.

The other factor is that Syria is now one of the few non-democratic countries in the region and a successful, democratic Lebanon would put the ruling family under alot of pressure to reform.

Therefore, chaos on Syria's doorstep is a convenient distraction.

Good thread. I'm learning some stuff here about what is an extremely confusing place.

I think its chess game between Iran, Israel and Syris, with Lebanon the unfortunate field of play.

Its likely that the Israelies know what they are doing, but whether it is the right or wrong we will find out in time. We can't doubt the US and Israel are very close in what is happening, and anything Israel does can only be done with US support (but not really, thats another game between the US and Israel where Israel can push the bar out a bit and only pull back when it knows the US is serious in its disapproval). In this case, Iran's nuclear sites are too tempting a target, and I believe Israel and the US are itching that Iran will show some direct involvement. Which is precisely why they won't.

Syria is the more complicated one. Israel is destroying infrastructure which I thought was curious. Then I wondered if the plan is that the US (maybe using Israel), actually rebuilds the infratructure afterwards to win minds (given there is no doubt it is currently losing a lot of minds in Lebanon by killing people there).

Iran wants to wait until it has a credible nuclear threat in place. Then it gets really, really interesting. The distraction from the agenda of the G8 meeting starts to look all the more valuable to Iran. I have a nasty feeling Israel will not stop until they find the reason they are looking for to remove Iran's nuclear infrastructure, and the US are busy helping them find reasons.

Lots going on behind the scenes, we can only guess.

[Without Hezbullah, the Israelis would be quiet neighbors.

They were not too quite before Hezbullah were formed!! Hezbullah came into existence because of the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, in the 1980's.
Obvisoulsy THAT invasion is part of the larger Arab-Israeli conflict..going way back!
It's a mess...all the dead and the maimed, not to mention the destruction and the displacement of half a million people.
It's terrible..I can't see a way out ot it all.
Does anyone know what happens the refugees who have been taken in by Cyprus?
How long can they stay for?

Like most wars, it continues because of the need for tit-for-tat. You attack, so I'll attack back, then it escalates. The simple answer would be not to strike back if you are hit, but of course who is able to restrain themselves if holding back might leave you open to further attack? THe trouble is hitting back doesn't seem to be a deterrent in a case like this - it simply gives the other side further justification to continue.

Does anyone else feel Israel needs to show a little more constraint at times and keep a better eye on their troops...first a Corporal gets nabbed in Gaza and then two soldiers in Lebanon...

The reaction to the kidnap of one soldier may well have inspired Hezbullah. I mean Israel showed little restraint in their retaliation regarding the kidnap of their corporal so Hezbullah supporters think...hmmm we have stuff we want to get on with but can't while the world is watching us so how about we start a war...I know lets kidnap a couple of Israeli troops and that'll set things off big time!

I can't help but think that if Israel had gone about the recovery of their man from the initial kidnapping more discretly and seen the the maths involved...one life by them or hundreds taken by us? ... the second may not have taken place... although Hezbullah probably would have found another way to poke a big stick into the ribs of the Israelis I'm sure...

I'm confused about one thing. It is portrayed that the Israelis backed out of Gaza and Lebanon in 2000 as a unilateral offer of peace, then sat back to see what happened.

It was said (not sure by whom, but BBC world), that whereas we might think of that as a step forward, Hezbullah saw it as weakness, and an excuse to arm and then start attacking - a la send a bunch of rockets into Israel. Add a few taking of soldiers, and Israel gave up on "the peace process" and it was back to square one.

IF this is true (who knows), then there can never be an end. If Israel shows restarint, Hezhullah see it as weakness, and attack until Israel responds again, and again, and again.

I don't understand why Hezbullah didn't just let sleeping dogs lie and focus on not creating more problems. Israel would not be doing what they were doing without the provocation. It seems the rhetoric from Hezbullah and Iran is that the provocation from Israel is simply the fact that they are there, ie there is no solution until (1) Hezbullah and Iran acknowledge Israel's right to exist, or (2) Israel ceases to exist. Thats just logic right?

In that context, what would any country do? I'm listening to BBC World right now, some Arab guy, who just said "Hezhullah is fighting for its homeland". What is Hezbullah's homeland? Israel? Or Lebanon? If Lebanon, why are they sending Syrian rockets into Israel? (ok, Russian rockets, but Russia sold them to Syria, Hezbullah is firing them, so lets all guess who gave them to Hezbullah).

What a mess.

Same guy talking on BBC World right now, and I'm listening. The syrian "diplomat" to the UK.

My apologies, but this guy is talking out of his ****.

There is no hope if there are people like this involved at any level.

He just said in answer to the question whether he would support advising Hezbullah to stop sending its rockets, he said "only if Israel stops its aggression".

Israel did that in 2000 didn't they? Isn't the agreesion in resonse to Hezbullah NOT sending in its rockets? Whats his point?

But they are like that on both sides.....
Last night I heard some Israeli 'diplomat' guy going on about how they were not target-ing Lebanese civilians....blah blah.....
I also think it's a bloody disgrace the way the Americans etc are not calling for a ceasefire! Because conditions are not quite right yet!
Just how many dead innocents (not to mention destroyed infrastructure and displacement) do you need before conditons are right.Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

Hezbollah says it wants Israel to release Lebanese prisoners.

I heard some Israeli 'diplomat' guy going on about how they were not target-ing Lebanese civilians

They aren't targeting civilians, noone in their right mind does, but when you are firing in missiles at "military targets", civilians die, lots of them! Especially when the "military targets" are right next to hospitals. And its messy, mistakes happen, its war, its SNAFU. So UN food trucks, ambulances, toothpaste factories (just heard that one!), get hit too. Welcome to the world of warfare. The "diplomats" argue, babies lose limbs and life....all in a good cause of course (errrr, what is the point of this one? Can someone remind me?)

I also think it's a bloody disgrace the way the Americans etc are not calling for a ceasefire!

Like what they did over Iraq? :mellow:

Hezbollah abhors the right of the state of Israel to exist.

Hezbollah is backed by Syria and Iran.

Israel exists!

The Republican Party in the US is part-financed by a strong Jewish lobby.

The US will support Israel come what may.

Iran detests US hegemony in the Middle East.

The UK (supported by the western allies) (re-)created the state of Israel in the former state of Palestine.

There's alot of oil in the Middle East.

The US needs alot of oil.

Arab nations are multiplying at a far faster rate than western nations.


So, anyone got a quick solution?

]They aren't targeting civilians, noone in their right mind does.


I disagree:'War is no respecter of age or innocence...but governments etc can be totally reckless.That (particular) apartment block they bombed was a civilian residential apartment blick.Israel claimed that Hezbollah had offices located on the top block.The UN had warned them on numerous occasions that their bombing was too close to the UNIFIL building...yet Israel still carried on bombing.
Also...as regards no body targetting civilians...er...Isreale incursions into Palestine refugee camps etc etc...
That HAS happened...and vice versa....(also..Bloody Sunday...both of them in Ireland.Civilians were targets then.I am sure there are countless other examples.)

So, anyone got a quick solution?[/QUOTE]

No...afraid not. :-(
Except to invent a time machine, and go back to the beginning where it all began, and try to..er....sort it out there somehow.
Glum.

No...afraid not. :-(
Except to invent a time machine, and go back to the beginning where it all began, and try to..er....sort it out there somehow.
Glum.

Who with? That God bloke? :unsure:

I wonder which side the god bloke is on given they both seem to be fighting in his name. But its the same question every time isn't it.

Israels main function seems to be to give an excuse for the different muslim factions not to kill each other. Its Shiite vs Shiah until Israel walks into the room.

Iraq - sectarian killings daily. India rail bombings, oops the muslim crowd again. Afghanistan gearing up again, oops the muslim crowd again. Checnya kicking up again, oops..., Iran, oops....., Bali bombers in the news again appealing the death sentence...oops, Syria....oops, Somalia in the news again....oops.

But lest we forget, its the religion of peace. Must be those darned Christian warmongers.

But seriously, I was hearing about the US cornerstone church today (christian) that seems to be a pretty strong lobby in the US. They lobby the US government pretty heavily to support Israel based on some bible thing which says something about armagheddon and Jews returning to Israel all being part of the second coming of christ.

Great ads for the value of religion in our world.

Personally speaking I couldn't really give a monkeys about lebanon-palestine and israel.


Every country has a version of what is going on there and always has. both sides have good arguments for and against and once blood is spilled..

let them get on with it and lets have some news from the UK

Price of fuel's up and NHS funds are being diverted to the Armed Forces.

They won't get much from the NHS funds then!

So, they'll take nurses instead then.:bye:

Personally speaking I couldn't really give a monkeys about lebanon-palestine and israel.


Every country has a version of what is going on there and always has. both sides have good arguments for and against and once blood is spilled..

let them get on with it and lets have some news from the UK


and to my anonymous reply to my user cp "the uk is part responsible for actions today in the middle East, learn some history" - we are not resposible for any fool who thinks that killing people is a great way to get your point across"

still your aggressive reply in some way proves my point:bye:

With Hezbullah threatening to retaliate against Tel Aviv today, it got me trying to remember where this round of hostilities started.

I think Blair said it started with Hezbullah crossing the border, abducting 2 Israeli soldiers and killing 4 others (with 4 more killed when in pursuit of the abductors).

Given they had an uneasy peace, surely Hezbullah must have known that would kick off a response. Did they really just wake up one day and say "hey, lets have some fun and go nab a couple of Israeli soldiers". Or did Israel do something just before that, and the incursion and abduction was a Hezbullah response?

I guess we could go back a few thousand years on this question, but there was an uneasy peace there for quite a while recently, and wondering why it flared again.