Anyone ever met one?

SO Corner/Soapox is a debating forum, what exactly is the debate about meeting a muslim?

Anyone ever met one?

Jesus, what planet are you really on???????? I personally find that most of your posts ooooze with your own self importance and arrogance, now I can add IGNORANCE to this list, I have taken offence at this thread, mainly, if Im honest because it is you that has started it and because of the way in which the question has been asked.

Maybe I am being over sensitive BECAUSE of my answer to it, maybe its a bit of PMT, maybe its my medication......who knows, I dont want this to be a row, this is my personal opinion, and I will respect yours, even though I may not agree with it - I think we will probably have to agree to disagree........

In answer to your question, YES, HUNDREDS I have many many friends who are Muslim, some of them were born here in the UK, some have emigrated here and others are white Brits who have converted for the person they love, as their religion is very important to them - JUST like my mother converted to Catholism back in the early 60's before she married my dad, it was the "done thing" back then to convert to your husbands religion, not being a religious person, Im not sure if this still happens, but I think you will find that this was common practice for ALL religions in times gone by!

You really should get out more and OPEN your mind a little!!!!!

Ok so so far we have Bella who is cross because I told her off in the BB thread and Isis who has met lots.

Anyone else?

Ok so so far we have Bella who is cross because I told her off in the BB thread and Isis who has met lots.

Anyone else?

Before we go any further......

What the F*** is your point????????????????????

Ok so so far we have Bella who is cross because I told her off in the BB thread and Isis who has met lots.

Anyone else?

Errr....no your post in BB has got absolutely nothing to do with your insulting post you ignorant twit!

Told me off..........don't think so! :nerd:

Before we go any further......

What the F*** is your point????????????????????

Well it would seem that maybe you should have established that (and also Isis, who left an insulting remark on my User CP) before launching into the very prejudicial diatribe that associates itsself with said religion.

talk about a honey trap! :applause:

Well it would seem that maybe you should have established that (and also Isis, who left an insulting remark on my User CP) before launching into the very prejudicial diatribe that associates itsself with said religion.

talk about a honey trap! :applause:

What the bit about calling you a narrow minded little p***k????????? At least I signed it :angel_not

Im STILL waiting for your answer - and I am sure my 1st reply made it quite clear as to why I thought you were asking, but you obviously dont have the intelligence and life experiences to answer that without appearing to be a narrow minded bigot.....in MY opinion....

So come on, f*** the walking round the houses by picking fault on my reply and enlighten us ALL as to WHY you asked the question in the 1st place...... go on, humour me!!!!

my POINT was made by both your replies. well made.

Maybe if you could make your point in your own words IOW, then maybe we could all just see the point you are trying to make.

What I don't understand is why post a question like that in the debating forum? What exactly is there to debate about meeting muslims?

my POINT was made by both your replies. well made.

what that you are an intollerant ignorant narrow minded f***wit??????

Cos if thats NOT what you were implying then I strongly suggest you learn some people skills, some compassion, some empathy, and most of all, learn to love yourself 1st, you are obviously not in a very nice place at the moment, therefore this comes across in the threads and posts that you make.

I took offence at your initial post as I am TRULY shocked that someone would ask a question like that when there is so much negative press about Muslim people at the moment, and I am/would be very surprised at anyone who HASNT met "a Muslim", I just find all of this really incredible.....

I went through similar problems with my stepkids - I was astounded at their attitude towards ANYONE who wasnt white British when I 1st moved to Devon, maybe its because I was bought up having friends from all creeds and colours, and perhaps the people who havent, ie those that live out in the sticks, their fear comes from the media, the only time they ever hear anything to do with Islam or Muslims is through the BAD stuff, but like every other race and creed, there are GOOD and BAD in all walks of life.....

Perhaps being that far up north you have got a touch of altitude sickness!!!!

Maybe if you could make your point in your own words IOW, then maybe we could all just see the point you are trying to make.

What I don't understand is why post a question like that in the debating forum? What exactly is there to debate about meeting muslims?

So eloquently put Bella!!! I really truly would like to know WHY IOW has posed the question, however, I fear my reply has made very clear the answer and now the intollerant fool is trying to back track and talk "in tongues" so we dont know WTF he is on about, trying to humilate me (AS IF!!!!!) and generally being what I posted on his REP - a narrow minded little p****............................................ :angel_not :w00t:

Well, at least Isis made it clear why she gave bad rep - I just go a "ho, ho, ho", makes as much sense as the initial post!

We are still waiting IOW


probably too busy looking up the dictionary to find out the meaning of the words in Isis's posts!

Perhaps being that far up north you have got a touch of altitude sickness!!!!

I'm sure it's not that, it's not affecting me :D

Taking your question seriously IoW, which honestly I'm not quite sure it merits, yes I have. Admittedly this far up the Highlands as far as I know there are none - although since you get Muslims of all colour I could be mistaken. That said I've lived a lot of places and all the Muslims I've ever met have been exactly the same as everyone else, in the way I am the same as Christians although I am not one. People are people so there's no real difference IoW, like Isis said, you get good people and bad people and I don't discriminate any other way personally.

I'm sure it's not that, it's not affecting me :D

Taking your question seriously IoW, which honestly I'm not quite sure it merits, yes I have. Admittedly this far up the Highlands as far as I know there are none - although since you get Muslims of all colour I could be mistaken. That said I've lived a lot of places and all the Muslims I've ever met have been exactly the same as everyone else, in the way I am the same as Christians although I am not one. People are people so there's no real difference IoW, like Isis said, you get good people and bad people and I don't discriminate any other way personally.

Hi Sammboelyn, Im glad to hear that its not the altitude :laugh: ......

Im still waiting for IOW to come back with an intelligent reply as to the whole point of the question being asked in the 1st place.......

NONE of us are flawless, regardless of sex, creed or colour..........

Isle have you met one? The problem i've got with Muslims around here is they are not friendly they keep to themselves and their own customs and can't be ar-sed or bothered to get to know the local people and our customs.

:angry: so to put it poiltely , i do not care to meet one thank you.

Bridge, do you actually know that they are Muslims, did you ask them cos to be honest I can't tell if a person is a Muslim by just looking at them?

As for being friendly/unfriendly that could be said of a lot of people, I know that some people in Edinburgh can be extremely unfriendly and only want to be with people who have the same standards as them and can't be bothered or a-rsed to get to know who people who they feel are beneath them. So, I don't think that this comment can just be pointed at the Muslim community.

Maybe it is down to the fact that the community that you are in cannot be bothered to get to know them...........just a thought....

Yes Bella they are definately Muslims:huh: - my Sister lives opposite their prayer hall, and she has tried to speak to them and be open and friendly but they look at her like she is a piece of sh-it on their shoes.

I know a local photographer who has a shop not far from mine choose not to put up any Christmas decorations last Year so as not to offend them! How stupid, this is our country and they have to live by our customs and traditions, my shop window was full to the brim with Christmas stuff.

If it offends anyone TOO BAD.

Isle have you met one? The problem i've got with Muslims around here is they are not friendly they keep to themselves and their own customs and can't be ar-sed or bothered to get to know the local people and our customs.

:angry: so to put it poiltely , i do not care to meet one thank you.

And in the 70's and 80's it was the IRISH here in the UK that had to live like that - because of the bigotted idiots who thought that because you were Irish Catholic then you were automatically IRA (IRISH Republican Army)

I have numerous friends and family who ALWAYS got stopped at ports of entry to and from the UK just because they had an Irish passport......

I AM STILL VERY VERY INTERESTED AT THE REASONING BEHIND THE QUESTION POSED.................wont be holding me breath then!!!!!

Does Isle like Muslims? i would like to know!

bridge, I'm really surprised at your attitude. How can you say that every person who shares a religious belief has the same personality? That's ridiculous!

I work in a school that's currently 60% muslim. 'They' aren't nice, nasty, good or bad, they're a collection of individuals who share a collective religious belief.

IoW, yes I have. Next question.

Yes Bella they are definately Muslims:huh: - my Sister lives opposite their prayer hall, and she has tried to speak to them and be open and friendly but they look at her like she is a piece of sh-it on their shoes.

I know a local photographer who has a shop not far from mine choose not to put up any Christmas decorations last Year so as not to offend them! How stupid, this is our country and they have to live by our customs and traditions, my shop window was full to the brim with Christmas stuff.

If it offends anyone TOO BAD.

Sorry bridge but I think that the fact the photographer didn't put up Christmas deccies says more about him that it does about the Muslims. He assumed that they would be offended when if you were to ask any Muslims, I bet that the majority of them are not offended by the decorations - I blame the media for printing garbage like this!

As I have said you go through life meeting ignorant, rude people who look at you as if you have sh-ite on your shoes and not all of them are Muslim. Your post doesn't offend me but I do that it comes across as very narrow-minded.

bridge, I'm really surprised at your attitude. How can you say that every person who shares a religious belief has the same personality? That's ridiculous!




Floopy i never said that! i never siad that every person who shares a religious belief has the same personality. of course they don't, there are probably many nice muslims out there, but all i am talking about is the one's who live by me, and what they are like.

I know a local photographer who has a shop not far from mine choose not to put up any Christmas decorations last Year so as not to offend them! How stupid, this is our country and they have to live by our customs and traditions, my shop window was full to the brim with Christmas stuff.

If it offends anyone TOO BAD.

I do agree with your point here Bridge, if you choose to live in the UK which is ruled by a monarch, who in turn is the head of the Christian CofE church, then you have to consider the way in which you want to live before making a life changing move - I LOVE my way of life here in the West, which is why I live here in the UK and not in a strict Muslim country.......

However, if I were to visit my friend who lives in the Middle East (some oil rich state) then I would check up on customs and respect the culture and custom of the country I am visiting......In other words I wouldnt be strutting my stuff in my gold lame bikini down Basra high street of a friday night on the lash.......

I think I have hit the nail on the head really, its about RESPECT isnt it.....

I just think we ALL need to be more tollerant of each other and our beliefs and ways, its a very sad state of affairs.......I just struggle when a majority gets judged on the minority, life is very unfair sometimes isnt it!

As for TERRORISTS - round them up and shoot them, sod prison, why should we taxpayers fork out to keep them in the life of luxury......

And I think this is my point, people today hear the word MUSLIM and automatically assume TERRORIST - its so wrong.....and it makes me angry, but then I guess that stems from being an Irish Catholic in a very small town growing up watching the hatred brewing - its IGNORANCE which in turn breeds FEAR, which in turn breeds HATRED!!!!

There endeth todays lesson..................................for now!!!!

Well, at least Isis made it clear why she gave bad rep - I just go a "ho, ho, ho", makes as much sense as the initial post!

We are still waiting IOW


probably too busy looking up the dictionary to find out the meaning of the words in Isis's posts!

yeah, I got an annonymous ho ho ho, which will cause me HOURS of lost sleep.............NOT!!!!!!

sad git hasnt even got the balls to sign its name to it......... in the words of BB's Pete..... "W****R"

and of BB's Nikki..........."WHO IS HE???? WHO IS HE?????" :laugh: :laugh:

I do agree with your point here Bridge, if you choose to live in the UK which is ruled by a monarch, who in turn is the head of the Christian CofE church, then you have to consider the way in which you want to live before making a life changing move - I LOVE my way of life here in the West, which is why I live here in the UK and not in a strict Muslim country.......

However, if I were to visit my friend who lives in the Middle East (some oil rich state) then I would check up on customs and respect the culture and custom of the country I am visiting......In other words I wouldnt be strutting my stuff in my gold lame bikini down Basra high street of a friday night on the lash.......

I think I have hit the nail on the head really, its about RESPECT isnt it.....

I just think we ALL need to be more tollerant of each other and our beliefs and ways, its a very sad state of affairs.......I just struggle when a majority gets judged on the minority, life is very unfair sometimes isnt it!

As for TERRORISTS - round them up and shoot them, sod prison, why should we taxpayers fork out to keep them in the life of luxury......

And I think this is my point, people today hear the word MUSLIM and automatically assume TERRORIST - its so wrong.....and it makes me angry, but then I guess that stems from being an Irish Catholic in a very small town growing up watching the hatred brewing - its IGNORANCE which in turn breeds FEAR, which in turn breeds HATRED!!!!

There endeth todays lesson..................................for now!!!!


Good post, i get your point and agree.:wink_kiss

I dont know any muslims ..... and im here trying to think if i have ever known any. Yes, yes i did. He used to work in my last company - and he was lovely. I think he was muslim :blink:

Where i live now you rarely see any different nationalities. I think i have seen about two black faces in 1.5 years. I dont know why they dont come to sunny Woodbridge :sun:

[quote=Isis]
And I think this is my point, people today hear the word MUSLIM and automatically assume TERRORIST - its so wrong.....and it makes me angry, but then I guess that stems from being an Irish Catholic in a very small town growing up watching the hatred brewing - its IGNORANCE which in turn breeds FEAR, which in turn breeds HATRED!!!!
[quote]

For that blame Bush and Blair. They have whipped up a frenzy that allows them to excuse their own warmongering actions.

Yes 9/11 was awful. Hundereds of thousands of people affected (remember that the dead and wounded had family and friends) but by rushing headlong into war they generate a counter ground swell against them as individuals which the extremist faction cannot touch/attack directly so they go for the softer general public and the infrastructure to cause greatest effect. The same as ETA/IRA/BMF etc. hence we had Madrid and 7/7

However.....as I said, there are many groups who have and are taking direct action and they are not just Religious factions so the 'muslim' thing is misleading. Consider that had the IRA still been active on mainland England at the same time as the current extremist threats would we be saying the same about ALL Irish people.

Honestly Bridge I find your attitude appauling. The Muslim communities all over the UK are having to dig deep. They are having to present a unified front whilst looking into themselves as to WHY members of their own community are apparently reacting to some Imams who are encouraging terrorist action. Whilst doing this the western communities are putting hands over mouths and pointing at them while newspapers and politicians are lourding the mis-conception that the World is under a muslim threat.

I live in North West London which has a very very high Muslim community and within this part of North London is the largest Jewish community outside of Israel and New York. I don't see people abusing each other in the street over the Lebanon/Israeli issue, I dont feel that the bins in the streets all contain bombs, I commute on the tube daily without fear of it getting blown up.

Maybe Scotland and Wales don't have these cosmopolitan cultures but do you know what...you are worse off for it.


Islam is a peaceful religion, muslims enjoy life, get this, they even have sex!!

For that blame Bush and Blair. They have whipped up a frenzy that allows them to excuse their own warmongering actions.

Yes 9/11 was awful. Hundereds of thousands of people affected (remember that the dead and wounded had family and friends) but by rushing headlong into war they generate a counter ground swell against them as individuals which the extremist faction cannot touch/attack directly so they go for the softer general public and the infrastructure to cause greatest effect. The same as ETA/IRA/BMF etc. hence we had Madrid and 7/7

However.....as I said, there are many groups who have and are taking direct action and they are not just Religious factions so the 'muslim' thing is misleading. Consider that had the IRA still been active on mainland England at the same time as the current extremist threats would we be saying the same about ALL Irish people.

Honestly Bridge I find your attitude appauling. The Muslim communities all over the UK are having to dig deep. They are having to present a unified front whilst looking into themselves as to WHY members of their own community are apparently reacting to some Imams who are encouraging terrorist action. Whilst doing this the western communities are putting hands over mouths and pointing at them while newspapers and politicians are lourding the mis-conception that the World is under a muslim threat.

I live in North West London which has a very very high Muslim community and within this part of North London is the largest Jewish community outside of Israel and New York. I don't see people abusing each other in the street over the Lebanon/Israeli issue, I dont feel that the bins in the streets all contain bombs, I commute on the tube daily without fear of it getting blown up.

Maybe Scotland and Wales don't have these cosmopolitan cultures but do you know what...you are worse off for it.


Islam is a peaceful religion, muslims enjoy life, get this, they even have sex!!

Excellent post Slipper! I do feel for the Muslim community, as you have said the innocent muslims are constantly being targeted, questioned and ignored for actions by other muslims. I don't know how much of the world are populated by muslims but taking it as a pro-rate I bet the amount that actually do the damage will be very low.

The media have us living in fear with some stories that they print.

The point about Scotland and Wales not having these cultures is a very valid one, probably not so much in the cities but on the outskirts, in the small villages their views on muslims, immigrants, "the Polish coming over and taking our jobs", blacks etc are very narrow-minded and it makes me angry. I thank God for that fact that I do live in City where there are many cultures, I find it a lot more interesting - you meet people with a broader mind instead of listening to their reasons why different cultures should not be in this country!

I am not a fool to believe that even though it is a multi-cultural City that racial attacks do not go on, sadly they do and it is appalling.

I notice that we have not heard from the post originator, I wonder if this is the sort of conflict that he hoped would happen. I would still like to hear his views.

It's so true re small Scottish towns not having much ethnic diversity, but I know for one I'm very greatful to the polish doctor who at the least stopped me having to have a hysterectomy and possibly saved my life after complications having Samuel. But shortly after this he and his Polish colleagues were sacked for no real reason (apprantly there had been complaints, but these were never substantiated and it seemed to be mostly because people couldn't understand them) Well while I admit I couldn't really understand him, neither can I understand anyone with a very braod Highland accent so it makes no difference to me, particularly bearing in mind my opening sentance.

If the hopsital here could not attract doctors from elsewhere it simply wouldn't have them, there are just not enough medical professionals willing to work this far up and with such (relatively) limited technology.

I think everyone should be greatful for a multi-cultural society it means a diversity of skills , knowledge, food etc etc I look forward to moving somewhere a little more diverse.

Oh and to follow on from Slippers post, Islam is a peacful religion as is it's God a peaceful god, to me terrorists are not religious people they are psychopaths, not matter what coulour or race or how they have twisted beliefs to further their psychotic paths.

Moving away from Muslims, we had Polish guys in who fixed our ceiling and boy did they work and they done a really good job - go back 5 years ago when we got our kitchen done, we had to get the guys back 3 times to finish off things that hadn't been done and that was them going a day over when they were supposed to finish - they turned up late, finished early and as I have said didn't complete the job.

The Polish are over here and they are not taking "our jobs", in reality they are being exploited as they are doing jobs that some layabouts on the dole don't think they are worthy of doing. Most will be working for the minimum wage and will not be entitled to hand-out from the state but they do work, and they work with a smile. Of course language is going to be a barrier but then surely it is up to us just to be a bit more patient, let's face it how many of us in Britain are bi-lingual - the guy that came to do our ceiling spoke Polish,English, French and a little German, a bit more than your average plasterer on the street.

I have met quite a few muslims in my time, and had good friendships with at least two that I can think of. (Though rarely speak to either now, but that's just because I moved away from Preston and drifted out of touch with the majority of my friends).

One of them I went to college with doing maths and physics, he dressed in typical western clothes and never really mentioned his religion, and then we visited a local mosque as part of our RE course. This is when he said he could recite the Quran (Sp?) which shocked me a little as I didn't think he was too religious.

Another I did Spanish with at college and again he wore typical western clothes, but seemed a little more strict about his religion. He doesn't drink alcohol, possibly because of his religion and the way he's been brought up... or possibly just because he doesn't want to (there are plenty of christian/white/british - however you want to label it - people who will never touch alcohol either). Now when I get drunk I often phone people and have a drunken conversation... I rang him on my birthday a couple of years ago to tell him I was older than him (I'm older than him by about 2 months and in those two months I used to have a joke with him that he was young and wasn't old enough to understand things etc...)... but my friends who were with me when I rang him seemed to think it was disrespectful to speak to a mulsim while I was drunk... which I can see their point, but I don't agree... surely if I ring everyone when I'm drunk and I leave him out because he doesn't drink/because he's a muslim, isn't that discrimination because I'm then treating him differently (i.e. not phoning him) because he doesn't drink. As far as I know he doesn't have a problem with other people drinking, he just choses not to himself.

I work in a pub now and the question came up, "why do people go to the pub," and we answered that it was because it was part of our culture. And it has been part of our culture for centuaries... now it's not been part of muslims' culture as much as ours if at all, and if drinking/smoking is against their religion then I can clearly understand why they wouldn't want to go to a smoke filled building full of drunks! That doesn't mean to say that no muslim has ever been to a pub, I'm sure lots of muslims go to pubs all the time and I'm sure the number is rising now that young people are more willing to mix and share similar hobbies (like going to the pub!)

As for christmas decorations, I don't have time for any muslims (or anyone for that matter) who are offended by christmas decorations or union jacks (unless they're used in a racist manner). Of the muslims I know they are willing to enjoy and celebrate christmas themselves, join in at easter- everyone loves an easter egg!, and are very proud to be british. If you don't want to celebrate christian fesivals, fair enough, but don't stop others from doing so. (I have never actually met a muslim who has been offended by christian festivities).

And vice versa, I'm happy for muslims to celebrate eid, and would join in if invited.

Now the best thing about a multi-cultural society is food! I love roast beef and yorkies, and a good lancashire hot pot... but I also love Indian food, Chinese food, Japanese food, Italian... I could go on... variety is excellent... especially when it comes to food, the more the merrier in my opinion. If we didn't have ethnic minorities here we wouldn't be able to nip down the Chinese and gorge on tasty fatty goodness!

Any other points I've missed off? Can't think of any... sure I will do soon!

Yeah, muslims are not supposed to drink alcohol.

To judge from opinion polls, British muslims tend to have very "traditional values" - anti gay, anti-sex-before-marriage, anti-revealing-clothing, pro-respect-for-elders, etc.

Also opinion polls suggest that somewhere between 5% and 10% of British muslims are sympathetic to islamic terrorists.

But the main thing these polls tend to show is that there's an awful lot of variety amongst British muslims - there isn't a single "muslim" identity that fits all.

Oh dear Fly.....started early did we?


I'm am truely astonished by the pinstripe attitudes being shown here.


BTW....there are different Islamic groups just as there are many different Christian groups.

But it seems as long as the foods good and the corner shop is open late all's well......



Jeeeszz

You have a problem with what I've posted Slipper?

Actually, can't be arsed waiting for a response and I'm gonna be away for a couple of days, so I'll say now that I was only replying in response to some of the things already mentioned in this thread i.e. "Have you ever met a muslim?" the abrupt topic opener, and someone mentioned christmas decorations etc...

Do you refer to "there are different islamic groups" as in some muslims drink and some don't etc... because if you do, I apologise for my ignorance, I'm not an expert on Islam... I also know that muslims don't cook all day for the enjoyment of we 'westerners,' it's just that food is a good example of how a diverse population can be a good thing.

Let me know what more you want me to expand on, cos I don't quite get your post and if it's aimed just at me or not?

[quote=Isis]






Honestly Bridge I find your attitude appauling.

Yeah fine whatever! you people are such hypocrits ,you put down Welsh people but as soon as i want to state my opinion about Muslims who live by me there's uproar.

Goodbye folks.

Now when I get drunk I often phone people and have a drunken conversation... I rang him on my birthday a couple of years ago to tell him I was older than him (I'm older than him by about 2 months and in those two months I used to have a joke with him that he was young and wasn't old enough to understand things etc...)... but my friends who were with me when I rang him seemed to think it was disrespectful to speak to a mulsim while I was drunk... which I can see their point, but I don't agree... surely if I ring everyone when I'm drunk and I leave him out because he doesn't drink/because he's a muslim, isn't that discrimination because I'm then treating him differently (i.e. not phoning him) because he doesn't drink. As far as I know he doesn't have a problem with other people drinking, he just choses not to himself.

As for christmas decorations, I don't have time for any muslims (or anyone for that matter) who are offended by christmas decorations or union jacks (unless they're used in a racist manner). Of the muslims I know they are willing to enjoy and celebrate christmas themselves, join in at easter- everyone loves an easter egg!, and are very proud to be british. If you don't want to celebrate christian fesivals, fair enough, but don't stop others from doing so. (I have never actually met a muslim who has been offended by christian festivities).



Fly, I think you summed it up neatly or your friends did - they assumed it would be disrespectful to phone a muslim when you are drunk, to be perfectly honest it could be deemed as disrespectful to phone anyone when you are drunk, muslim or not!

As for the Christmas decorations, this is media-fuelled. They print an article stating that "councils" are banning Christmas Decorations, it is not a request from the Muslim community but is the PC councils of this world that do this - if you want to rant at anyone, rant at them it's them that make the decision.

As for their cooking, if anyone ever comes to Edinburgh you have to go to the cafe next to Mosque as the food there is absolutely amazing! And you are greeted with a friendly face and fab service and did I mention how good the food is? Oooh, I think I may have a wee visit up there today I am drooling already!

Bridge, how many of these muslims did your sister actually speak to? Maybe the ones she tried to speak just aren't all that friendly, maybe they are just that sort of person - people like this are all around us and they are from every nationality - I have many rude people in life, I put it down to them being just that, it has nothing to do with their religion that is just the way they are.

And this is a debating forum, and you are entitled to your opinions and to you they are valid ones, it's just that some of us disagree with them.

Oh and where exactly have the Welsh been slagged off? I truly think that if they have been slagged off in this forum, I think it will have been in jest.

The point was that they found it particularly disrespectful to phone a muslim while drunk (I don't mean off my head drunk, I mean cheery, chatty drunk)... they've seen me phone plenty of people who aren't muslim in a similar manner and never mentioned a thing.

The point was that they found it particularly disrespectful to phone a muslim while drunk (I don't mean off my head drunk, I mean cheery, chatty drunk)... they've seen me phone plenty of people who aren't muslim in a similar manner and never mentioned a thing.

Many muslims don't drink (some do by the way, some interpret the Koran to state thou shalt not drink wine, so beer and spirits are acceptable).

Many Christians don't drink. Many people don't drink. So isn't the question "when tiddled, is it disrespectful to phone a tee-totaller?".

If you are accepting of their life choices, if they are a friend (which is presumably why you are calling them), then presumably they are not judgmental of your life choices either. I see no disrespect issue at all.

If you are castigating them for not drinking, then yes, thats disrespect of their life choice. If they feel disrespected by you calling while tiddled, then thats the same level of disrespect from them.

The point was that they found it particularly disrespectful to phone a muslim while drunk (I don't mean off my head drunk, I mean cheery, chatty drunk)... they've seen me phone plenty of people who aren't muslim in a similar manner and never mentioned a thing.

That's exactly what I meant, maybe I didn't put it across right. I wasn't having a go but pointing out that your friends used one rule of thumb for muslim friend when it should be the same for everyone.

I'm am truely astonished by the pinstripe attitudes being shown here.


WHAT'S A PINSTRIPE ATTITUDE?

Ooops, caps lock :D

straight-dyed in the cloth-conservative

Just a reality check, but saying muslims are all the same is a bit like saying all Africans are the same. Lots different shades.

The best analogy of one of the core differences lies in the book Red Dwarf with the short chapter describing the origin of Cat.

I can't remember it in detail, but it explains how the cat nation venerated their founder, Lister. At one point there was confusion over the spelling, whether it was Laster, or loister (or something like that), so a holy war broke out and all the cats ended up leaving the mother ship to fight their war in space and eventually exterminate themselves. Only one remained, a kitten born of two idiots who couldn't travel, our one and only Cat.

But I digress.

Not gratuitously knocking muslims, same analogy for catholics and protestants.

I'm sad that I felt I had to add that caveat, don't know why, just talking from the gut with brain disengaged. Its late.

I have just read this thread through at least twice.

The reason why I read it twice is that I found myself searching for your area of debate, Isle of Weather.

In answer to your question. yes I have met many Muslims, I have some Muslims as friends and I still keep my connections open with the Race relations council, I am registered with, if I need to communicate with a non English speaking person. My humour thread somewhere began with my friendship with a Muslim.

I feel comfortable with Muslims, I don't feel threatened and of the many events I have been invited to, I feel that I have learnt something from the multicultural experience. In fact I shared a flat in my days as a music student many years ago with two Muslim girls, and the only argument in the entire time sharing was over my pork chops.

There is good and bad in all races, but one bad person is not indicative of the entire race or community.

Bridge I am saddened to read of your bad experience with these muslims in your community, does your sister feel the same?

I don't personally believe it is disrespectful to send a christmas card to a Muslim when you are not, so maybe it could well be that the situation could be eased by some small action to break the ice. I hope the situation in your community improves.

The Muslims who run the corner shop where I live, celebrate christmas plus some other religious festival just after it. Not all Muslims are anti christian either, these are the ones who would tell me that Christ was a prophet of Allah.

Isle of Weather do you have an issue with Muslims?

MAUREEN
NORTHERN ANGEL.

The thread was apparently started to cause contention rather than debate. Success!

There isn't actually an issue here, is there?

It's amusing, isn't it, when people who are outraged by intolerance are themselves intolerant of intolerant people.

Or perhaps it isn't amusing...

The thread was apparently started to cause contention rather than debate. Success!

There isn't actually an issue here, is there?

It's amusing, isn't it, when people who are outraged by intolerance are themselves intolerant of intolerant people.

Or perhaps it isn't amusing...


my point exactly:yahoo:

No prizes, alas, for self-congratulation though. ;)

OK in answer to the question....Yes I've know a muslim

I live with a muslim. I work with many...Sorry that I live and work somewhere that has a diverse population.


My posts were not drawn to to contention, more addressing f@ckwits

I guess that by living in a very cosmopolitan place has left me SOFT to this idea of wit




Sorry but many people here really are biggoted Non Technical Computer Users (anagram the caps)

I was fortunate enough develop my mind beyond that of the the local BNP party HQ or the Daily Mail - Please expect a distinct lack of respect !

It's amusing, isn't it, when people who are outraged by intolerance are themselves intolerant of intolerant people.

Or perhaps it isn't amusing...

I don't really understand this Blink, what I mean is that I don't think people are "outraged by intolerance" because people of the Muslim faith don't need to be tolerated. They're just people the same as everyone else. I think what's getting irksome is that there seem to be people ignorant enough not to realise that Muslims are just people like everyone else... and it really would take a lot of tolerance to let some of the posts on here slide.

I think Floopy made a good point regarding challenging racism whenever you come up against it and I think that's what this thread has been about. The majoroty of posters are just not willing to let posts slide and almost condone racism in that way IYSWIM?

I think Floopy made a good point regarding challenging racism whenever you come up against it and I think that's what this thread has been about. The majoroty of posters are just not willing to let posts slide and almost condone racism in that way IYSWIM?

I'm going to ask what may sound like a strange question because everyone knows the answer, but what is racism?

I'd say it was making judgements about people based solely on the belief that their race, nationality etc has a bearing on the matter.

I'd say it was making judgements about people based solely on the belief that their race, nationality etc has a bearing on the matter.

If that's what it amounts to, might not everybody have it some degree or other? In which case, could that be why obvious racism draws an angry response - because it touches upon something that people are suppressing about themselves?

I agree Sf.
I think everyone is racist to a certain degree.

How can I not have a view on a certain race that I may have never come across.
I can only form my opinions on the information available to me, whether that information is right or wrong is basically for me to research and decide for my self what I feel is right and wrong. Which in fact could be a totally wrong opinion.

I think that had Bridge been derogatory about Christians and made anti-Christian statements about a few Christains she knows, she would have had a lot more support ....

that's what I think.

Yep. For some weird reason, the Christians are always fair game.

Do certain races have a similar mindset with each other?

Going back to Muslims, I was watching a program the other night all about Jihad.
My question was, does every Muslim believe in a holy Jihad, the destruction of the enemy, i.e. non-muslims, or is it just fanatical muslims that believe this.
One of the guys on the show said that he believed in Jihad, but not at the expense of innocent lives.

But why is it always Muslims?
Don't Jehovah witnesses believe that they have to convert people to their own faith, the one they believe is the right way?

What I'm trying to say is that I believe there are good and bad in all races (I know it's a bit of a cliche) but I'm sure there are fanatical catholics/christians/jews/muslims about just as there are some wonderful catholics/christian/jews/muslims around the world.

I think that had Bridge been derogatory about Christians and made anti-Christian statements about a few Christains she knows, she would have had a lot more support ....

that's what I think.

You may have a point there, Dolores. However, they might have been a little less distinguishable from the Catholics and the Jews, other than the fact that the Christians would look much less guilt-ridden. :laugh:

Seriously, though (get us, being serious and everything), I think that because we live in such an overly-PC society these days, we can't get away with saying anything that can be misconstrued for fear of being labelled a racist. In the UK we can all joke with each other about our backgrounds, even our colonial friends take a ribbing and give it back in spades! I don't know if we have any Muslim members, but I would like to hazard a guess that we wouldn't joke about their background in the same way. I think it would be the same for any of the so-called minority races (I would be interested to hear Kookycat's views on this).

Oh dear, this is now in danger of becoming just another racism thread. Sorry folks!

Yep. For some weird reason, the Christians are always fair game.

Stone him! Are there any women here? :unsure:

Is there a difference though between being racially aware, and being racist?

dang, this debating is fun

It is probably natural to make assumptions about others based on race (and sex, class, age and so forth) out of an awareness of differences. But it's when these assumptions are allowed to cloud other criteria (considerate, intelligent, attractive) etc that it becomes racist.

And of course it works in reverse too, in terms of overcompensating and being afraid to criticise a perceived minority for fear of doing the wrong thing. For example, it's OK to call someone a ****er if they are; calling them (eg) a black ****er is not, because the 'black' is unnecessary.

Is there a difference though between being racially aware, and being racist?

Now that's what I meant.
I waffle on for loads and you put it down in one straight sentence!:laugh:

What I'm trying to say is that I believe there are good and bad in all races (I know it's a bit of a cliche) but I'm sure there are fanatical catholics/christians/jews/muslims about just as there are some wonderful catholics/christian/jews/muslims around the world.

Mixing up Race and Religious groups

This to me comes under the definition Bigot or Bigoted

........Why?

I think bigot is a bit severe, but that view does imply that religion is determined by race, which may well have been the case historically, but in today's multi-cultural and multi-denominational world, it is no longer a correct or safe assumption.

I always feel a bit left out, as an athiest, that I don't have a stereotype to live up to.

because muslims, christians, hindus etc are religious members of a particular race.

Race isn't even a nationality thing

OK
You get Black Africans, West Indians, Phillipino, European etc Christians

Middle Eastern (Arabic), Indian Sub-continent, Far Eastern Asia (Malaya/Indonesia), North African etc Muslims

You get the idea.

A race is a group of people sharing common features generally eminating from a common heredical birth path.

As you can see many religions spread across many different racial groups so if you take issue with a religious group you are being a bigot. So, in theory you could be a bigot without being a racist

eg have a disdain of a specific social group.

Bit like I have towards ALL righteous dope smoking hippy trippy teepee dwelling vegan greenie peacey people (I don't but you get the idea)

http://members.purespeed.com/%7Emg/images/atheist.jpg
........................

...From the start, the Brights label reinforced a longstanding stereotype. Atheists already have a terrible rap for being coldhearted rationalists who attend Mensa gatherings and dismiss religious believers as simple-minded fools. Remember the public outcry that resulted when Jesse Ventura told Playboy magazine that he considered organized religion to be "a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers" (Ventura 1999)? Given this backdrop of strongly held negative preconceptions about the nonreligious in our heavily religious society, how is renaming atheists as Brights supposed to burnish their image?

So many atheists I have spoken to have been either bitter or confrontational

However, as a believer myself, I can assure you that "brights" is not the way to go. Richard Dawkins (http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,981412,00.html)manifests in great abundance the atheist stereotype that I find to be probably the most accurate among them: noxious arrogance.


Ooh, I think I've found a home! :w00t: :w00t:

Yeah, someone smart mentioned this (http://www.survivor-online.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=183094&postcount=93)yesterday :huh:

Yeah, someone smart mentioned this (http://www.survivor-online.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=183094&postcount=93)yesterday :huh:

Duh like in Eeeer Hello - different thread whiffy fishy.

Anyway you didn't go that little bit further and say what it was if it wasn't racism...another example of Grouch being halfcocked

Finish the job properly then every one is happy

Is this turning into an atheist thread? How ecumenical.

“No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.” – George H. W. Bush

BTW - That link takes me to one of your posts Grouch. :unsure:

BTW - That link takes me to one of your posts Grouch. :unsure:

Yeah, I bet you'd assumed it was going to link to one of your posts Fee, didn't ya? :wink2:


Apologies Slips, I just cant rant like you do during the hours of daylight.

But it's thursday Grouch, can we expect some good work from you after midnight tonight?

I'm going to a leaving drink tonight, but I've promised myself I would go straight to bed when I get in rather than slink around here until 2am.

So, yes, probably. :ninja:

Will there be any Muslims there, Grouch? If so, please take a picture of them on your mobile and show us tomorrow.

It's in the City Pats, our only religion is money, we're blind to everything else.:devil:

Will there be any Muslims there, Grouch? If so, please take a picture of them on your mobile and show us tomorrow.
If not you're welcome to use this one (note my assumption they're not Muslims although that bloke at the back might be)
http://www.cicero.co.uk/images/photo-gallery/Social%20activities/Pub%20evening/slides/01%203%20smiling%20Japanese%20students.jpg

Weren't they at the February SO meet?

I think they were, isn't that Cat and Bonsai behind them, and Mikado over by the door?

Yep. For some weird reason, the Christians are always fair game.
That's cos you're supposed to turn the other cheek. Makes you a soft target, see? :)

Mixing up Race and Religious groups

This to me comes under the definition Bigot or Bigoted

Well I wouldn't call myself a bigot. But I just mixed up the words race and religion. My apologies.

Yeah, someone smart mentioned this yesterday

I read that yesterday after I'd posted my bit in here and thought about changing the wording of my post. But I thought someone would pull me up on the wrong use of words.
And thats all it was, the wrong use of words.

Pedant's corner for you, young lady :laugh:

Well I wouldn't call myself a bigot. But I just mixed up the words race and religion. My apologies.

I wouldn't apologise Andrea, I think everyone knew what you meant, and going back to your point about how there are all sorts to be found in any race/religion etc ...

I think (many? most?) people do tend to form an all-embracing opinion of a particular nationality/race/religion, usually based on bits of fact, and with a tendency to apply it to all members of that group. Wrong of course, but hard to resist.

Sometimes it happens that the concept of inferiority creeps in too, and is projected onto to an entire ethnic or religious group. I guess when that happens, members of that group may also be seen as evil or the enemy.